07-25-2022, 10:07 PM | #43 | |
Drives: 2020 Camaro 2SS A10 Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,430
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Quote:
That is outside of that closed system, so I believe it still follows the laws of physics so to speak. The alternator doesn't need to power the motor, the battery does, the motor powers the alternator and drive shaft for lack of a better phrase. The alternator's low AC output is then converted to DC and with multiplied voltage and amperage, which is then fed back into the battery to offset the draw of the motor to the point the charge rate is the same or higher than the load rate. That is also why I asked if people knew how much HP these motors produce, and how much relative draw is an alternator really going to have on a 400+ hp motor output? Do you know if it would be more or less draw compared to a regular 400+ hp Combustion engine? Or is the mechanical conversion easier in that it is more efficient than an electric motor would be? In theory that is.
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2020 Camaro 2SS A10 | Rebuilt by: CBI Street Cars | 2" SE LT Headers | 3" SE X-Pipe | 3" MBRP Axle-Back | Pri & Sec Cat Deletes | K&N Typhoon CAI | LT2 Ported | 95mm ZR1 TB | LSA crankshaft conversion w/modified crank gear | LS1 thrust bearing | LS MSD Plug Wire Set | BTR Stage I Cam | ARP Rod Bolts | Delphi Lifter set | NGK LTR71X-11 spark plug set | DOD Delete | VVT Limiter | ECM, TCM & E85 | Retuned by: Justin L. | Dyno: 510 rwhp 472 rwtq | Best 1/4 Time: 11.639
Last edited by FlukeSS; 07-25-2022 at 10:20 PM. |
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07-25-2022, 10:09 PM | #44 |
Drives: 2021 Tesla Model 3 LR Join Date: May 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 966
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07-25-2022, 10:16 PM | #45 |
Drives: 2020 Camaro 2SS A10 Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,430
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I guessed it to be relative to the Ford Lightning $30,000 increase for 100 mile range increase. I took 1/2 of that to equal the 320 mile range and guessed based on 1/2 the price of that extended battery.
And you actually said its more expensive than that. Not bad for a guess I think. Either way I would never spend that money on an EV SUV personally. not with a 3-4 recharge time. I'm sure some of that cost is probably cosmetic as well on the SS.
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2020 Camaro 2SS A10 | Rebuilt by: CBI Street Cars | 2" SE LT Headers | 3" SE X-Pipe | 3" MBRP Axle-Back | Pri & Sec Cat Deletes | K&N Typhoon CAI | LT2 Ported | 95mm ZR1 TB | LSA crankshaft conversion w/modified crank gear | LS1 thrust bearing | LS MSD Plug Wire Set | BTR Stage I Cam | ARP Rod Bolts | Delphi Lifter set | NGK LTR71X-11 spark plug set | DOD Delete | VVT Limiter | ECM, TCM & E85 | Retuned by: Justin L. | Dyno: 510 rwhp 472 rwtq | Best 1/4 Time: 11.639
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07-26-2022, 06:03 AM | #46 | |
Drives: 2022 ZL1 M6 & 2023 Stinger GT AWD Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Detroit Metro, MI
Posts: 452
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Quote:
Easy math here - let's just assume you take a motor, which will only spin the alternator (could be even motor from Tesla, powerful enough to make car fly 0-60 in 2s, doesn't matter). There will be current draw - let's say 5A at whatever voltage (F = BIl, current makes it move, not voltage, but you cannot put infinite current thru it, so we up the voltage), motor at that current flowing thru him can only output X amount of mechanical power, this X amount of mechanical power is already using around 95% of that 5A current due to losses in resistance in wiring by heat (noticed motors gets warm? that's wasted energy in heat). so now we spin the motor and have losses on the input. Just to spin. Now you connect alternator to this. You added new mechanical losses, i.e. bearings, inertia. This alternator now got your X amount of mechanical power from the motor but... minus mechanical loses, so now, let's say, mechanical loses is also 5%, so you take 5A multiply by 95% efficiency of converting electrical power to mechanical power, multiply by 95% of mechanical transfer efficiency and you are already down quite a bit. Now you start to produce electrical power again - another losses in this based on efficiency - which is somewhere in 60 - 75% (look here https://nacfe.org/technology/high-ef...-alternator-2/). So to recap. You take 5A and due to losses in transmission and conversion you will probably end up generating 5A * 95% * 95% * 75% = 3.38A. Now you can see that you would take much more to run alternator, than you would get out of it? And guess what. You didn't move the car an inch! You need more power than alternator will "take" to get going. Stop talking about voltage, open systems etc... Just focus on power transfer. Voltage is your water pressure, but you need current - a water flow to get something going. you can have 100psi in you pipe but if there is no flow to follow it you will just spit somebody in the eye instead of doing anything meaningful. Voltage multiplier works, but at relatively low power (can't get much current from it) and it's very inefficient. It's used mostly in something like electrical fence or spark plug... Can you believe engineers? Or they are full of it?
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07-26-2022, 06:20 AM | #47 |
Drives: C8 Corvette Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 641
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I don't think we will see another Camaro generation, not even as a Sedan/Crossover/EV.
There is a recent article on GMAuthority that the Lansing Plant will be producing the standalone 2025 electric Corvette model and addtionally a Corvette branded Crossover. To me it seems like the rumored 4 door EV-Camaro will not become a thing anymore because the Corvette Crossover will fill the spot. Even from a marketing standpoint is makes no sense to push for a Camaro branded car. The Camaro is dying, it's not selling well so the name won't attract anyone, it will not work like the Mustang Mach-E. The Corvette brand is on a high note in comparison, the hype for the C8 is surreal, so expanding on that makes sense. You can easily guess that the CT4 and CT5 would reach their end of life cycle in 2025/26 too. So their replacement could obviously be based on the Corvette crossover build in the same plant. The only way we will see the 4 door EV Camaro would be if there will be nextgen CT4/CT5 Sedan. Then it's easy to build a Camaro on their platform too. But I doubt the Lansin plant could produce it next to the Corvette and Cadillac lineup.
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07-26-2022, 08:13 AM | #48 |
Drives: 2020 Camaro 2SS A10 Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Michigan
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I guess now would be a good time to take this discussion into a PM.
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2020 Camaro 2SS A10 | Rebuilt by: CBI Street Cars | 2" SE LT Headers | 3" SE X-Pipe | 3" MBRP Axle-Back | Pri & Sec Cat Deletes | K&N Typhoon CAI | LT2 Ported | 95mm ZR1 TB | LSA crankshaft conversion w/modified crank gear | LS1 thrust bearing | LS MSD Plug Wire Set | BTR Stage I Cam | ARP Rod Bolts | Delphi Lifter set | NGK LTR71X-11 spark plug set | DOD Delete | VVT Limiter | ECM, TCM & E85 | Retuned by: Justin L. | Dyno: 510 rwhp 472 rwtq | Best 1/4 Time: 11.639
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07-26-2022, 08:20 AM | #49 |
Hail to the King baby!
Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
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As I’ve said in the past, my hope is GM comes out with a sedan with a coupe off of that body style. Think of the ATS. A very stylish coupe with a slammed roof to lay the windshield back a bit (and take away head room.
Chevy will likely need a sedan in the show room to replace the Malibu (or Impala) at some point. So if the architecture, chassis, IP are common the cost for a coupe would be workable. Issue is would that coupe be ok to bear the name Camaro? Maybe better suited to call it Chevelle. But that’s my hope.
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07-26-2022, 08:50 AM | #50 | |
Drives: 2022 1SS Team Joe and Becky Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Georgia
Posts: 188
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Quote:
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, and going with trolling. |
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07-26-2022, 08:54 AM | #51 |
Drives: 2020 Camaro 2SS A10 Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,430
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Pot calling the kettle black?
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2020 Camaro 2SS A10 | Rebuilt by: CBI Street Cars | 2" SE LT Headers | 3" SE X-Pipe | 3" MBRP Axle-Back | Pri & Sec Cat Deletes | K&N Typhoon CAI | LT2 Ported | 95mm ZR1 TB | LSA crankshaft conversion w/modified crank gear | LS1 thrust bearing | LS MSD Plug Wire Set | BTR Stage I Cam | ARP Rod Bolts | Delphi Lifter set | NGK LTR71X-11 spark plug set | DOD Delete | VVT Limiter | ECM, TCM & E85 | Retuned by: Justin L. | Dyno: 510 rwhp 472 rwtq | Best 1/4 Time: 11.639
Last edited by FlukeSS; 07-26-2022 at 09:05 AM. |
07-26-2022, 08:56 AM | #52 |
Drives: 2022 1SS Team Joe and Becky Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Georgia
Posts: 188
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07-26-2022, 08:57 AM | #53 | |
Drives: 22 1LE Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: USA
Posts: 77
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Quote:
Combustion engines have pulleys and belts that power the alternator - what is the equivalent in an EV and where would the alternator be on an EV? Combustion engines have alternators to convert fuel into electricity. What is the purpose of an EV taking electricity to power an alternator to then return the electricity to the battery? |
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07-26-2022, 08:59 AM | #54 |
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07-26-2022, 09:05 AM | #55 |
Drives: 2020 Camaro 2SS A10 Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,430
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Either you are intentionally stupid, or you really are. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, and going with the latter.
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2020 Camaro 2SS A10 | Rebuilt by: CBI Street Cars | 2" SE LT Headers | 3" SE X-Pipe | 3" MBRP Axle-Back | Pri & Sec Cat Deletes | K&N Typhoon CAI | LT2 Ported | 95mm ZR1 TB | LSA crankshaft conversion w/modified crank gear | LS1 thrust bearing | LS MSD Plug Wire Set | BTR Stage I Cam | ARP Rod Bolts | Delphi Lifter set | NGK LTR71X-11 spark plug set | DOD Delete | VVT Limiter | ECM, TCM & E85 | Retuned by: Justin L. | Dyno: 510 rwhp 472 rwtq | Best 1/4 Time: 11.639
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07-26-2022, 09:47 AM | #56 | |
Electrical Engineer
Drives: 2023 1SS A10 Black Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Illinois
Posts: 800
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Quote:
The rate of battery discharge will increase in order to do more work (i.e. operate the alternator). The energy returned by the alternator will be less than the the discharge energy to operate the alternator - resulting in a net loss and only DECREASING range, never improving it.
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Historically an Accord and Camry owner with self-performed maintenance/repair. 1100: 5/3/22 . . . . . . . 2000: 6/25/22 . . . . . .4000: 8/17/22 . . . . . . . 6000: 9/10/22 Daily Driver mileage update: 22k mi. @ April 2024 New Engine @ 22,600 Build Log: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...6#post11353116 |
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