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Old 01-14-2020, 08:34 PM   #15
Heater
 
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Drives: 2016 Camaro SS, 2009 BMW 135i
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Unfortunately not for a few states, but i will be running e85 soon and the lack of 93 availability just encouraged me to get a cam.

I got 1 of the first LT4 kits from weapon X, they were exceptionally helpful and had amazing customer service, so i really like them. The kit was complete with a zl1 take off. During the days i did install i had the car in my garage and it got flooded out by a broken water main while i was at work and did not see this for hours. The harness was probably fine but i thought it would be better to get another one to avoid potential issues down the line so i got one off adm. Andy was super helpful too.

The install was like all the other pd blowers so i just printed out the instructions from the other camaro kits and referred to some zl1 diagrams online. The biggest difference from the other kits is i swapped the valley cover and added the adapter plates.

The other things to consider are scalability, this build will not be super high horsepower due to the 1.7, but it is a super fun street car with really lower power band. Lastly, the lt4 is silent so if you want blower whine you either need an nx lid or a different blower.

At the end of the day cost was a factor especially since i never really modified a car before and for the money spent i have no complaints
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Current Mods: LT4 blower, Kooks 2" headers, CAI, LT4 High Pressure Pump, LT4 Injectors


Mods to be installed in coming weeks: Alky Control Meth Kit, BTR Stage 2 Cam and Spring Kit + DoD Delete, LT4 Low Pressure Pump, Skid Mark Garage E85 Sensor, Skid Mark Garage Aux Pump
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:32 AM   #16
Eldi Z
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heater View Post
Unfortunately not for a few states, but i will be running e85 soon and the lack of 93 availability just encouraged me to get a cam.

I got 1 of the first LT4 kits from weapon X, they were exceptionally helpful and had amazing customer service, so i really like them. The kit was complete with a zl1 take off. During the days i did install i had the car in my garage and it got flooded out by a broken water main while i was at work and did not see this for hours. The harness was probably fine but i thought it would be better to get another one to avoid potential issues down the line so i got one off adm. Andy was super helpful too.

The install was like all the other pd blowers so i just printed out the instructions from the other camaro kits and referred to some zl1 diagrams online. The biggest difference from the other kits is i swapped the valley cover and added the adapter plates.

The other things to consider are scalability, this build will not be super high horsepower due to the 1.7, but it is a super fun street car with really lower power band. Lastly, the lt4 is silent so if you want blower whine you either need an nx lid or a different blower.

At the end of the day cost was a factor especially since i never really modified a car before and for the money spent i have no complaints
Understood. So you can recommend both WeaponX and ADM for the components of such mod?
Was the use of the adapter plates and swapping the valley cover an issue requiring a great deal of DIY, or was it a straight forward job?

BtW, why did you end up getting the possibly water-damaged replacement wiring loom from ADM and not from WeaponX (your "original" supplier)?

Actually, I am looking for a streetable application. I am not into drag racing - just thinking of a bit more "fun" power. The fact that the blower is relatively quiet and not whining is an advantage for me as well - not a drawback.

I believe that using (maybe) one size smaller pulley, LT4 Injectors & LT4 FPs (+LT4 Fuel fittings) on 93 can get me to around a "safe enough" 560-580 RWHP, which is my ball-park goal. Idea is to also avoid having to go into the motor, in order to replace Pistons / Rods.
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:14 PM   #17
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They are both great, I recommend both as they have good customer service, are responsive and knowledgeable. This was a new kit from WX and I wanted something next day so it was easier to just purchase off their website in the middle of the night and get it next day delivered so i could work on it the next day.

With the LT4 setup on the LT1 it actually seems to produce a little more power but due to the heat and fueling it is better to go with a larger upper pulley than the zl1, I run a 2.6 and i believe the zl1 is 2.5 and i get about 9psi. If i was on 93 compared to 91 it is possible i would be right at your target, but with little room to grow.

The valley comes right off with after you remove the fuel lines/injetors and pump. So since i was upgrading those to lt4 it was just an extra step. For this info i used a diy from the corvette forum: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...e-for-lt1.html.
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Current Mods: LT4 blower, Kooks 2" headers, CAI, LT4 High Pressure Pump, LT4 Injectors


Mods to be installed in coming weeks: Alky Control Meth Kit, BTR Stage 2 Cam and Spring Kit + DoD Delete, LT4 Low Pressure Pump, Skid Mark Garage E85 Sensor, Skid Mark Garage Aux Pump

Last edited by Heater; 01-21-2020 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:18 PM   #18
Eldi Z
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heater View Post

With the LT4 setup on the LT1 it actually seems to produce a little more power due to heat and fueling with a larger upper pulley than the zl1, I run a 2.6 and i believe the zl1 is 2.5 and i get about 9psi. If i was on 93 compared to 91 it is possible i would be right at your target, but with little room to grow.
Thanks Heater for the details!

The only reason I could think of that the LT1 with a blower produces more power than an LT4, would be the higher C/R of the LT1 (11.5 LT1 Vs. 10.0 or 10.5? LT4).
Why would there be a difference in heat (lower for the LT1 with the exact same blower mounted)?
Why did you put a larger pulley, rather than leave the stock LT4's 2.5?

Finally, who tuned the ECM? Was it performed on a dyno, or did you log on the street and had it sent to the tuner for mail tuning?
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:09 PM   #19
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The LT1 has a much bigger cam too.
I went with Pray Procharger setup (with heads, cam tune), but would have been just fine with ADM, price seems great.
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2016 to 2017 Stage 1, FBO, ported MSD, 103 TB, E85

2018 Stage 2, P1C, 4.0 pulley, Pray ported heads, Pray stage 1 blower cam, TxSpeed valvetrain, Katech ported 87mm TB, ported MSD, 1 and 7/8 headers

2019 stage 3: Forged short block 11.5 CR, huge duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, 2 BOVs, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0, CA-offroad pipe, 60609 Borla, Lingenfelter injectors, ZL1 driveshaft and half shafts, Katech ported TB,MSD intake, BTR valvetrain.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:03 PM   #20
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It would make sense the same blower/psi would make more power on the higher compression ratio, as long as you have the fuel and octane needed.

The lt4 supercharger is 1.7l so it is small and which means there is not a lot of volume for cooling. Also, the smaller pulley causes the rotors in the supercharger to spin at a higher rate (like all smaller pulley setups) and at the higher rate that can create more heat. With the additional heat created, and small volumetric area of this supercharger reduces the cooling capabilities and leads to more heat. So in this application the higher boost level is hotter and can be somewhat counterproductive as the heat created can reduce timing or cause knock. I believe ADM has done testing on pulley sizes and recommends the slightly larger pulley for that reason with these swaps.

I got my car tuned at Cordes Performance in Tempe, Arizona, they are really awesome and build a lot of the AZ high hp LS and LT cars. They have some nice fab'd stuff for our platform too. They didn't do any of the install but theyhave a tuner, NicD who is really great on the gen 5 lt platform so I reached out once I finished my install to get the dyno tune.
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Current Mods: LT4 blower, Kooks 2" headers, CAI, LT4 High Pressure Pump, LT4 Injectors


Mods to be installed in coming weeks: Alky Control Meth Kit, BTR Stage 2 Cam and Spring Kit + DoD Delete, LT4 Low Pressure Pump, Skid Mark Garage E85 Sensor, Skid Mark Garage Aux Pump
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Old 01-16-2020, 08:40 PM   #21
Eldi Z
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman View Post
The LT1 has a much bigger cam too.
I went with Pray Procharger setup (with heads, cam tune), but would have been just fine with ADM, price seems great.
What do you mean in terms of Big?

What is the Lift/Duration on the LT1 and what is it on the LT4?
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Old 01-16-2020, 08:56 PM   #22
Eldi Z
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heater View Post
It would make sense the same blower/psi would make more power on the higher compression ratio, as long as you have the fuel and octane needed.

The lt4 supercharger is 1.7l so it is small and which means there is not a lot of volume for cooling. Also, the smaller pulley causes the rotors in the supercharger to spin at a higher rate (like all smaller pulley setups) and at the higher rate that can create more heat. With the additional heat created, and small volumetric area of this supercharger reduces the cooling capabilities and leads to more heat. So in this application the higher boost level is hotter and can be somewhat counterproductive as the heat created can reduce timing or cause knock. I believe ADM has done testing on pulley sizes and recommends the slightly larger pulley for that reason with these swaps.

I got my car tuned at Cordes Performance in Tempe, Arizona, they are really awesome and build a lot of the AZ high hp LS and LT cars. They have some nice fab'd stuff for our platform too. They didn't do any of the install but theyhave a tuner, NicD who is really great on the gen 5 lt platform so I reached out once I finished my install to get the dyno tune.
OK. Now I get it.
The stock pulley of the LT4 should be avoided, since it is too small (spins too fast) when working on the LT1.
So when you get the kit (Incl. Blower) from ADM (or WeaponX too?) they supply the blower with the larger Pulley already installed on it?

You are lucky to have a knowledgeable tuner on LT Gen5 ECMs and engines close to you
I think that I would have to rely on remote tuning when the time for my job comes.
I do have a couple of dynos close by, but I don't trust local tuners on the LT Gen5 platforms (yet). There are 2 tuners around who are very good on LS setups, but I am looking for experience and perfection on the LT/Direct Injection setups.
Unfortunately this place is "ruled" by EURO Import material (VW, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Etc.) and less GM/Ford/Chrysler. But it has improved slightly in the past 2 years with an inflow of C7s, SS, ZLs and CTS-V/ATS-V machines.
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Old 01-16-2020, 09:04 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldi Z View Post
What do you mean in terms of Big?

What is the Lift/Duration on the LT1 and what is it on the LT4?

LT4 Cam Specs
Part Number 12642245
Duration @ .050 in. (int./exh.) 189°/223°
Valve Lift (int./exh.) 0.492 in./0.551 in.
Lobe Separation Angle 120°

tiny in fact.


L86 Camshaft Specs
Part Number 12629512
Duration @ .050 in. (int./exh.) 200°/207°
Valve Lift (int./exh.) 0.551 in./0.524 in.
Lobe Separation Angle 116.5°

LT1 Cam Specs
Part Number 12629512
Duration @ .050 in. (int./exh.) 200°/207°
Valve Lift (int./exh.) 0.551 in./0.524 in.
Lobe Separation Angle 116.5°

LT2
204 / 219
.551 / .551
Revised Cam Profile And Phasing
Now that the exhaust flows about as freely as the intake, the exhaust valve lift is increased by 1mm to match the intake's 14.0-mm lift, which improves exhaust valve flow rate from 122 to 125 grams/second. Duration is also increased, and the range of authority of the cam phasing is now 62 degrees (though the controller seldom orders more than 50 degrees).

It would be my opinion that power is related to intake duration and lift.
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2016 to 2017 Stage 1, FBO, ported MSD, 103 TB, E85

2018 Stage 2, P1C, 4.0 pulley, Pray ported heads, Pray stage 1 blower cam, TxSpeed valvetrain, Katech ported 87mm TB, ported MSD, 1 and 7/8 headers

2019 stage 3: Forged short block 11.5 CR, huge duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, 2 BOVs, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0, CA-offroad pipe, 60609 Borla, Lingenfelter injectors, ZL1 driveshaft and half shafts, Katech ported TB,MSD intake, BTR valvetrain.

Last edited by oldman; 02-11-2020 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 01-17-2020, 07:50 PM   #24
Eldi Z
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman View Post
LT4 Cam Specs
Part Number 12642245
Duration @ .050 in. (int./exh.) 189°/223°
Valve Lift (int./exh.) 0.492 in./0.551 in.
Lobe Separation Angle 120°

tiny in fact.


L86 Camshaft Specs
Part Number 12629512
Duration @ .050 in. (int./exh.) 200°/207°
Valve Lift (int./exh.) 0.551 in./0.524 in.
Lobe Separation Angle 116.5°

LT1 Cam Specs
Part Number 12629512
Duration @ .050 in. (int./exh.) 200°/207°
Valve Lift (int./exh.) 0.551 in./0.524 in.
Lobe Separation Angle 116.5°

LT2
Revised Cam Profile And Phasing
Now that the exhaust flows about as freely as the intake, the exhaust valve lift is increased by 1mm to match the intake's 14.0-mm lift, which improves exhaust valve flow rate from 122 to 125 grams/second. Duration is also increased, and the range of authority of the cam phasing is now 62 degrees (though the controller seldom orders more than 50 degrees).

It would be my opinion that power is related to intake duration and lift.
Excellent data here.

So the L86 and LT1 share the same stock Cam...

I wonder why the LT4 cam exhibits a smaller intake lift
What are the advantages of this Cam spec in an FI setup? Vs. the LT1/L86?
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Old 01-17-2020, 08:39 PM   #25
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The 120 LSA cuts down on overlap, don't want to be blowing boost out the exhaust... bad for smog too.

I think OEM valve springs are very weak, GM wants 200,000 miles out of these so cut down on lift helps the larger intake that is also fighting against boost. Less guide wear too. GM wants to use the SMALLEST cam posible for any HP target, and the least lift. So the Lt4s cam is the most dependable, best on smog for the application, the LT1 cam should make more power.
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2016 to 2017 Stage 1, FBO, ported MSD, 103 TB, E85

2018 Stage 2, P1C, 4.0 pulley, Pray ported heads, Pray stage 1 blower cam, TxSpeed valvetrain, Katech ported 87mm TB, ported MSD, 1 and 7/8 headers

2019 stage 3: Forged short block 11.5 CR, huge duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, 2 BOVs, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0, CA-offroad pipe, 60609 Borla, Lingenfelter injectors, ZL1 driveshaft and half shafts, Katech ported TB,MSD intake, BTR valvetrain.
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Old 01-18-2020, 02:43 AM   #26
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Heater: Great feedback on you experiences. Not sure about the comment, "produce a little more power due to heat." Possibly I took that out of context, but more heat will produce less power. Possibly the LT1's cam may produce more boost than the LT4...but I'd chalk that up to not an ideal blower cam.

I'm not an expert, but I'd think the cam is not such a benefit to the LT1 with a blower. Yes the intake lift/duration is greater than the LT4, but you have boost benefiting the inflow. Notice the exhaust is less for lift and duration on the LT1 compared to the LT4 - an area that the blower does not help. In other words, the LT4 has a blower cam and the LT1 has a NA cam. How does this impact long term longevity of the engine/cats...

I'd suggest (as others have) the 1.5 point of compression increase on the LT1 is the source of any 'extra' power...I'm not sure a LT4 blown LT1 makes anything more than the LT4. Doing so means the power is made differently with a weaker piston design. Why does Chevy go with a lower CR...reliability, no doubt-just like oldman states on minimal cam actuation/valve springs.

I've asked about better valve springs when going from NA to blower and was told, not necessary. I used to change valve springs out seasonally on my 7200 rpm LT4 (Gen II) motor as they were consumable. I'll probably address in the future as boost on the backside of the valve reduces the resulting spring pressure - I do like to hear those 6500 rpm shifts!

I'm interested in the discussion only because I will be putting the stock LT4 blower on my LT1...may not be the best idea for my application, but can't deny the need for 650 HP!

I'm at 1100 feet elevation so will report back what boost it runs with an OEM LT4 blower/pulled as well as OEM intake setup.

Thanks!
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Old 01-18-2020, 07:49 AM   #27
Eldi Z
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim M View Post

I'm interested in the discussion only because I will be putting the stock LT4 blower on my LT1...may not be the best idea for my application, but can't deny the need for 650 HP!

I'm at 1100 feet elevation so will report back what boost it runs with an OEM LT4 blower/pulled as well as OEM intake setup.

Thanks!
Same plan here. I am at sea level here. Where are you located?

When do you plan installing the LT4 blower on your motor? Are you sourcing the necessary parts and adaptation elements from ADM or WeaponX?
Who will be tuning?
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:29 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim M View Post
Heater: Great feedback on you experiences. Not sure about the comment, "produce a little more power due to heat." Possibly I took that out of context, but more heat will produce less power. Possibly the LT1's cam may produce more boost than the LT4...but I'd chalk that up to not an ideal blower cam.

I'm not an expert, but I'd think the cam is not such a benefit to the LT1 with a blower. Yes the intake lift/duration is greater than the LT4, but you have boost benefiting the inflow. Notice the exhaust is less for lift and duration on the LT1 compared to the LT4 - an area that the blower does not help. In other words, the LT4 has a blower cam and the LT1 has a NA cam. How does this impact long term longevity of the engine/cats...

I'd suggest (as others have) the 1.5 point of compression increase on the LT1 is the source of any 'extra' power...I'm not sure a LT4 blown LT1 makes anything more than the LT4. Doing so means the power is made differently with a weaker piston design. Why does Chevy go with a lower CR...reliability, no doubt-just like oldman states on minimal cam actuation/valve springs.

I've asked about better valve springs when going from NA to blower and was told, not necessary. I used to change valve springs out seasonally on my 7200 rpm LT4 (Gen II) motor as they were consumable. I'll probably address in the future as boost on the backside of the valve reduces the resulting spring pressure - I do like to hear those 6500 rpm shifts!

I'm interested in the discussion only because I will be putting the stock LT4 blower on my LT1...may not be the best idea for my application, but can't deny the need for 650 HP!

I'm at 1100 feet elevation so will report back what boost it runs with an OEM LT4 blower/pulled as well as OEM intake setup.

Thanks!
The LT1 indeed makes more power then a LT4 at the same PSI of boost. As you mentioned, The LT1 has a lot more compression which contributes to the increase. Honestly the LT4 supercharger works better on the LT1 because it doesn't need spun as hard to make power which equals lower blower temps. LT1's tend to dyno around 600whp on 9 psi and not 550whp like the LT4 on 93. The down side is the LT1 runs into a octane wall on pump gas around 10psi. So you need to supplement with Ethanol blend or Meth. LT4 can potentially make a lot more power on 93 octane with it's lower compression.

It's a good swap if you don't plan to go very far. I personally would run a larger 7psi pulley and run a blend of ethanol(E60) with LT4 fuel system. It will soften the hit since the little 1.7 makes a boat load of torque down low and still make the same if not a little more power up top as the 9 psi pulley on 93.
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