[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by 3.8TransAM

So you're saying you paid 94k and accepted a truck with a ton of problems? Regardless of the issues I would not accept it because I would check it all out beforehand. If you get too excited about things, you bring a friend or spouse to calm you. (there also is no excuse for putting together shit product)





So you were brought up on union wages and now thinks it's a joke......




I've said it in here before and I'll say it again 95% of those reading this thread wouldn't make it in a factory doing 45-60 cars an hour. Same goes for all the dealership horseshit heroes who could not make a living spinning wrenches.


The complain about the cost of things without regard for the actual reasons why other than parroting what they heard.

The blind mentality of unions that in their mind no one else can possibly do their jobs is absolutely bogus. Anyone off the street with even barely a high school diploma could do the job of anyone at any point on a modern car assembly line. Robots weld all the chassis points and do a much better more consistent job than any human welder ever could. Components come in pre-assembled off site. You cannot show me any point on a modern assembly line that anyone with absolutely zero experience couldn’t come in off the street and not master in a week or less.

[ZarusSS]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Yes that was the agreement GM made in order to close the plant, but if you were fully correct there would have been a 2006 Camaro rather than a 2010.



Sorry I think you have it backwards. 95% could. It’s hard work but there are certainly more physically demanding jobs. I’ve walked the line in a large number of plants and your assertion is way too high. Now a non air conditioned plant in Mexico........oh wait a huge number in my companies plant in Mexico are women and they donAWESOME work.



That was how they did it back in the 50s. It’s been a long time since dies weren’t machined. Of course finishing remains the final step.

It's hysterical how people try to defend the quality of work their companies do in a foreign country with foreign workers. Like it's something to be proud of. Some guys in this thread ***cough*** Petrol Guy ***cough*** would rather see this happen than having an AMERICAN union worker do the job who can actually raise and support a family and in turn spend their earnings back into the community. Most of you guys are a bunch of entitled cry babies who probably tried to get in a union but was rejected. I see it all the time.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by ZarusSS

It's hysterical how people try to defend the quality of work their companies do in a foreign country with foreign workers. Like it's something to be proud of. Some guys in this thread ***cough*** Petrol Guy ***cough*** would rather see this happen than having an AMERICAN union worker do the job who can actually raise and support a family and in turn spend their earnings back into the community. Most of you guys are a bunch of entitled cry babies who probably tried to get in a union but was rejected. I see it all the time.

You haven’t a clue who I am or anything about me. But if you’d have read the entire thread you’d know I’d prefer EVERYTHING be made in the United States.

What I DONT want is the union mentality that they must be the only people on the planet who can do anything thus they must be paid a lot and guaranteed their job for life.

I’ve never once wanted to work in a union and never tried to get in one. I’ve worked for two companies in 21 years after I earned my associates degree in electronics and have made a really good career of it. Everything I’ve earned I’ve worked hard for and now make what the “top tier” UAW members make. I’ve never felt that a union would make my job or my life any better. My salary increases over the years have been the result of working hard without being asked or told what to do and being willing to do more than my “job description”. I have excellent job security, a consistent paycheck of 80 hours every two weeks, I work M-F 6:30-3:00, and will probably retire from where I work today.

I really don’t want to sound like I’m bragging because I know there’s people reading this who are doing even better than me. I’m just asking you to understand why unions really do not make sense for anyone today: employees or companies.

[CamaroSS50]

Had a service at a Chevy dealer, can tell you everyone from the techs (formerly mechanics) to the CSR want nothing but death to the UAW and Teamsters.

They are not supporting this garbage.

They were telling me how guys working for GM are now being asked to only work 4 days a week due to their jobs being affected by these knuckle dragging asses.

America has no place for socialism.

GM should simply fire all of them, then re-list their jobs as non-union.

Need to go Reagan on their butts especially if that means a part I need is held because of these communists.

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by CamaroSS50

Had a service at a Chevy dealer, can tell you everyone from the techs (formerly mechanics) to the CSR want nothing but death to the UAW and Teamsters.

They are not supporting this garbage.

They were telling me how guys working for GM are now being asked to only work 4 days a week due to their jobs being affected by these knuckle dragging asses.

America has no place for socialism.

GM should simply fire all of them, then re-list their jobs as non-union.

Need to go Reagan on their butts especially if that means a part I need is held because of these communists.

+1 $60+/hr to put lug nuts on right (most of the time) is ridiculous. Supposedly, 2-3K of every new car goes to the union and they "need" more? THAT is crazy...

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

+1 $60+/hr to put lug nuts on right (most of the time) is ridiculous. Supposedly, 2-3K of every new car goes to the union and they "need" more? THAT is crazy...

It’s not $60+\hr. Stop trying to make it out these guys make $125,000 a year and they don’t. You’re lumping in healthcare and other benefits in there and that is never a part of any persons salary.

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

It’s not $60+\hr. Stop trying to make it out these guys make $125,000 a year and they don’t. You’re lumping in healthcare and other benefits in there and that is never a part of any person salary.

LOL.. You are joking, right?

Benefits, Healthcare, paid holidays and vacation are a big part of anyone's salary. Companies and individuals compare employment packages, not just hourly pay.

In the past when I have looked at job opportunities I've always compared what percentage of health care the company pays, how much leave I would get per year, and what holidays they observe.

That is part of your salary.

[Frisbey]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

You’re lumping in healthcare and other benefits in there and that is never a part of any persons salary.

Union vs non union is a whole subject of its own, and for another day,

BUT,

Salary or complete compensation package,
This is a distraction, the FULL compensation package is the only thing that matters when it comes to pay! A business doesn’t just pay a wage, it pays medical, dental, sick, vacation, retirement and salary. This is the true cost to the business for an employee, and it’s how they look at it.

Just the way it is.

Another consideration,
If employees and or unions make it too hard on a business or corporation,
There comes a point where the business will say ENOUGH!
Let’s hope this strike doesn’t push GM to that point.

[Frank237]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

It’s not $60+\hr. Stop trying to make it out these guys make $125,000 a year and they don’t. You’re lumping in healthcare and other benefits in there and that is never a part of any persons salary.

Are You a high school kid who has NEVER HELD A JOB?

YES total compensation is HOW wages are computed.

Folks making $60 an hour ARE making a very good wage. With good benefits currently and for when they retire.

The need for Unions has come and gone. I'd be happy if GM allowed this for another month or so then told ALL of them to clean out their lockers, and get off the property. Start all over, pay a similar wage but allow the workers to DO the job they were hired to do.

I've worked in Union shops and the Unions basically protect the folks who DON'T want to work.

[Silverado57]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

LOL.. You are joking, right?

Benefits, Healthcare, paid holidays and vacation are a big part of anyone's salary. Companies and individuals compare employment packages, not just hourly pay.

In the past when I have looked at job opportunities I've always compared what percentage of health care the company pays, how much leave I would get per year, and what holidays they observe.

That is part of your salary.

Agreed. If the employer is paying for healthcare that's a savings to the employee of over $175/month and probably a lot more if they're married with a family.

[ChevyRules]

I simply disagree. I think it’s unfair to say these people make six figures when they don’t. So to say they make $60/hr is misleading. You can go to a company that pays less for your healthcare and have a higher wage or accept a lower base wage, but have more of your healthcare covered. But to lump it all together is BS because they don’t have $60/hr worth of money in their bank accounts.

[Petrol Head]

My paystub breaks down exactly, to the penny, how much my employer pays for my healthcare. Even if you are never sick, never need a prescription, heck you never see a doctor in your life, they still pay that in the event that you DO need one. So it is absolutely part of your overall compensation.

Sure you could make $60/hr at some company that doesn't provide any hospitalization. Then what happens if you fall off a ladder or your roof and break your leg? Or worse, God forbid, you or someone in your family is diagnosed with cancer? No $60/hr job is going to pay the $100,000+ in medical bills that YOU would be directly and solely responsible for.

It's not a matter of if anyone agrees with this explanation or not, that's the fact. Companies factor your entire compensation package when they pay you, not just the actual hourly or salary stipend that is deposited into your bank account every two weeks.

[Petrol Head]

Looks like they have some things resolved but three sticking points remain:

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...ed/3973525002/

The allocation issue is going to be the hard one. That may hold this strike up for another month if the UAW is serious about it and won't back down or accept a deal. There again, with the employees paying only 3% of their healthcare when GM wanted that to shift to approx 28% - which, oh BTW, is about what MOST companies make you pay - if the union would take GM might see enough savings to bring back more production to America.

Me personally? If I was the union? I'd give GM the 28% on the healthcare if that meant they'd bring more production back to America.

[ChevyRules]

My W2 reflects what I made in income for the year. Not what the company paid on top of that. I’m not trying to say employees just cost businesses their base wage. But I think it’s fairer to say these employees make their base wage+ benefits than lump it as saying they earn $60/hr. I’m also not trying to say these guys don’t have good benefits.

It’s really about stating it really.