[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

You have no idea whether the ZL1 will beat a base or not on the track, same for the Z1LE vs CFP, what we do know is that the ZL1 is going to get its a!! handed to it on the street and strip and Chevy has no answer in the present Camaro line-up why?

Let's wait and see what the 4200 pound rhino will do before we start mocking a car that's been out a long while.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I remember many being skeptical of Chevy's Ring times for the 5th Gen ZL1 and Z28, because somebody is skeptical does that now discount the times?

My advice instead of lining up the excuses and accusations of cheating, why not have a conversation in regards to what will be Chevy's answer to the 500 in Camaro form?

2021 Corvette Grand Sport. There won’t be a need for a Camaro answer.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

You have no idea whether the ZL1 will beat a base or not on the track, same for the Z1LE vs CFP, what we do know is that the ZL1 is going to get its a!! handed to it on the street and strip and Chevy has no answer in the present Camaro line-up why?

You DON'T know for a fact that the GT500 will beat anything in a straight line because you have not seen it perform or ran on any track besides a video of some dude with a stop watch. You are guessing. And your guess is no better than mine.

The $64K ZL1 is going to beat the $74K Base GT500. The $70K ZLE is going to destroy the $74K Base GT500 AND it is going to beat the $94K CF GT500. THAT is your answer.

I'll ask you. What does Ford have that costs under $75K that can beat the ZLE? Oh wait that is not fair. Sorry. Let me change that. What does Ford have that costs under $80K that can beat the ZLE? Wait, that still isn't fair. My bad. WHat does Ford have that costs less than $85K that can beat the ZLE? Dammit, I did it again. I'm cheating. Sorry again. I'll be more fair this time. Promise. So, what does Ford have that costs under $90K that can beat a ZLE? Oh crap. Let me get this right. I'll try one more time. What does Ford have that costs under $94K that can beat a ZLE?? Around a track?

I answered your question so answer mine.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

2021 Corvette Grand Sport. There won’t be a need for a Camaro answer.

The GT500 will be on life support before they even announce pricing for the C8 GS. The GS is just gonna come in and pull the plug to put it out of it's misery.

The thing is that whatever Ford makes, GM makes a faster version for much less. At this point it is just comical. There is no way a Pony Car with $5K more money in it should get beaten by the ZLE. And there is no way a $94K Pony Car's only claim to fame will be in trying to beat a car that costs $24K less and another car that costs $30K less than it does. That just shows the sad state of affairs Ford is in. The GT350 now costs as much as a ZL1 and that isn't even a battle. It would literally be like Mike Tyson in his prime beating up a 110 pound high school geek. The GT350R costs more than the ZL1 and ZLE and it can't beat either. The Base GT500 costs even more and the CF GT500 is up in the clouds in price. It is going to lose to the much cheaper Redeye and the ZLE. How can anyone defend or justify this nonsense. The day when a Mustang costs more than a Corvette by a large margin and will still lose to it is just embarrassing. And we haven't even gotten into the GS, Z06, and ZR1. I bet the Z06 will be cheaper MSRP than the CF GT500 yet the Shelby isn't even going to be close in performance.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You DON'T know for a fact that the GT500 will beat anything in a straight line because you have not seen it perform or ran on any track besides a video of some dude with a stop watch. You are guessing. And your guess is no better than mine.

The $64K ZL1 is going to beat the $74K Base GT500. The $70K ZLE is going to destroy the $74K Base GT500 AND it is going to beat the $94K CF GT500. THAT is your answer.

I'll ask you. What does Ford have that costs under$75K that can beat the ZLE? Oh wait that is not fair. Sorry. Let me change that. What does Ford have that costs under $80K that can beat the ZLE? Wait, that still isn't fair. My bad. What does Ford have that costs less than $85K that can beat the ZLE? Dammit, I did it again. I'm cheating. Sorry again. I'll be more fair this time. Promise. So, what does Ford have that costs under $90K that can beat a ZLE? Oh crap. Let me get this right. I'll try one more time. What does Ford have that costs under$94K that can beat a ZLE?? Around a track?

I answered your question so answer mine.

What does Ford have that costs under...

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

2021 Corvette Grand Sport. There won’t be a need for a Camaro answer.

That’s what I’d call properly applied resources. Another performance marvel. World class performance for budget prices. Chevy Performance has been amazing.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You DON'T know for a fact that the GT500 will beat anything in a straight line because you have not seen it perform or ran on any track besides a video of some dude with a stop watch. You are guessing. And your guess is no better than mine.

The $64K ZL1 is going to beat the $74K Base GT500. The $70K ZLE is going to destroy the $74K Base GT500 AND it is going to beat the $94K CF GT500. THAT is your answer.

I'll ask you. What does Ford have that costs under $75K that can beat the ZLE? Oh wait that is not fair. Sorry. Let me change that. What does Ford have that costs under $80K that can beat the ZLE? Wait, that still isn't fair. My bad. WHat does Ford have that costs less than $85K that can beat the ZLE? Dammit, I did it again. I'm cheating. Sorry again. I'll be more fair this time. Promise. So, what does Ford have that costs under $90K that can beat a ZLE? Oh crap. Let me get this right. I'll try one more time. What does Ford have that costs under $94K that can beat a ZLE?? Around a track?

I answered your question so answer mine.

Ford has claimed sub 11 second 1/4 mile. It's more than just a guess that the GT500 will beat the ZL1 in a straight line.

And you're acting, again, as I have pointed out previously, that performance around a track is all that matters. It's not. Performance-wise, it is at most 50% of what matters (straight line performance being the other half). To most people acceleration is more important than a Ring or VIR time. Whether the base GT500 beats the ZL1 and CFTP G500 beats a ZLE around a track remains to be seen. But that is not the end-all be-all. You have your predictions, and nothing wrong with that, but acting as if acceleration does not matter is blind to the overall performance of the cars. As I've stated previously, Billy Johnson said in an interview Ford Performance took a lot of performance testing data to make sure the GT500 was faster than its competitors. We'll see.

Also, as to why someone would buy a GT500 over a less expensive ZL1 - There's other factors, like acceleration, styling, exclusivity, brand loyalty, the way a car makes them feel, interior design, ergonomics, etc. Also, high horsepower costs money. You can't expect a 760 hp car to cost the same as a 650 hp car, regardless of on track performance. I know, the R has less hp but costs more than a ZL1...the FPC engine is expensive and hand built and CF wheels aren't cheap.

The GT350 sells because people like it. The R sells for the same reason. They are both extremely well balanced and sorted out cars, esp the R. Buyers don't care that a ZL1 could go a bit faster around a track than the R (The ZL1 and the R are very close around a track as proven when Pobst drove both H2H for MT). The R is a different driving experience with the high revving FPC V8. To each his own with regards to the two cars.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Chevy has a 750hp+ 100k+ car that'll whoop the gt500 in everything, the 2019 corvette zr1... and they had the balls to actually put a manual in it a long with the auto.

Yea the Corvette is a tier above and the camaro is the mustangs true rival, but this is a 100k mustang in the cfp version. It put itself in the next price bracket up.

No one should be surprised if the car with an extra 110 hp that costs more is going to be faster, but it better be faster everywhere not just a straight line.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Ford has claimed sub 11 second 1/4 mile. It's more than just a guess that the GT500 will beat the ZL1 in a straight line.

And you're acting, again, as I have pointed out previously, that performance around a track is all that matters. It's not. Performance-wise, it is at most 50% of what matters (straight line performance being the other half). To most people acceleration is more important than a Ring or VIR time. Whether the base GT500 beats the ZL1 and CFTP G500 beats a ZLE around a track remains to be seen. But that is not the end-all be-all. You have your predictions, and nothing wrong with that, but acting as if acceleration does not matter is blind to the overall performance of the cars. As I've stated previously, Billy Johnson said in an interview Ford Performance took a lot of performance testing data to make sure the GT500 was faster than its competitors. We'll see.

Also, as to why someone would buy a GT500 over a less expensive ZL1 - There's other factors, like acceleration, styling, exclusivity, brand loyalty, the way a car makes them feel, interior design, ergonomics, etc. Also, high horsepower costs money. You can't expect a 760 hp car to cost the same as a 650 hp car, regardless of on track performance. I know, the R has less hp but costs more than a ZL1...the FPC engine is expensive and hand built and CF wheels aren't cheap.

The GT350 sells because people like it. The R sells for the same reason. They are both extremely well balanced and sorted out cars, esp the R. Buyers don't care that a ZL1 could go a bit faster around a track than the R (The ZL1 and the R are very close around a track as proven when Pobst drove both H2H for MT). The R is a different driving experience with the high revving FPC V8. To each his own with regards to the two cars.

You can't expect 760 to cost as much as 650, that's right, but a lot of gt500 fanboys are bragging about their 110 extra hp having, more expensive car, that has been in development getting benchmarked for 3 extra years will be faster in a straight line. I should be. It really needs to be faster everywhere to justify the long wait and it's existence.

One thing is true though, Chevy makes fantastic sports cars that can go fast in a straight line and corner on a track, but the average American doesn't give a crap about that and 90% of what they do is drag race or street race in straighlines. That's why straighlines cars like the hellcat sell and get a lot of hype

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Chevy has a 750hp+ 100k+ car that'll whoop the gt500 in everything, the 2019 corvette zr1... and they had the balls to actually put a manual in it a long with the auto.

Yea the Corvette is a tier above and the camaro is the mustangs true rival, but this is a 100k mustang in the cfp version. It put itself in the next price bracket up.

No one should be surprised if the car with an extra 110 hp that costs more is going to be faster, but it better be faster everywhere not just a straight line.

Yes, of course. But the ZR1 starts ~$30k above the CFTP GT500. They are not in the same price bracket. The CFTP GT500 is about the price of a Z06 with a few options.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Chevy has a 750hp+ 100k+ car that'll whoop the gt500 in everything, the 2019 corvette zr1... and they had the balls to actually put a manual in it a long with the auto.

Yea the Corvette is a tier above and the camaro is the mustangs true rival, but this is a 100k mustang in the cfp version. It put itself in the next price bracket up.

No one should be surprised if the car with an extra 110 hp that costs more is going to be faster, but it better be faster everywhere not just a straight line.

All true. But there is still a history of Shelby Mustangs competing head-to-head with Corvettes, especially in track events. Goes all the way back to the ‘67 GT500. When the Shelby Cobras went away, the GT350 / GT500 stepped into the void.

[Martinjlm]

Based on the numbers Ford has provided the GT500 should beat the ZL1 and ZLE 0-60 and 1/4 mile.

Based on the fact that ZL1 has been on the market since ‘17 and the ZLE since early ‘18 I would expect the GT500 to beat the ZL1 on most tracks, especially those with long straights and high speed curves. I would also expect the GT500 CFTP to beat the ZLE under the same circumstances. It’s disappointing that it has taken so long to put this package together to take down a car that has sat on the peak for so long. If the CFTP can’t take the ZLE on the track, then all fingers need to be pointed at the weight.

GT500 is heavy at 4,225, but it makes sense that it would be heavy. It is very difficult to take mass out of a car without significant platform change, especially when adding in performance. Superchargers have mass. Tires and wheels have mass. Coolers have mass. Big brakes have mass. Starting with an S550 that weighs 3,800-ish and adding performance goodies is gonna push it over 4,000. I’d be more concerned about how will it really perform at the end of the day. It’s clear that it can accelerate, despite the extra poundage. If it can beat ZL1 and possibly even ZLE on track, does the weight really matter? It would just mean that there was potential for it to go even faster.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Ford has claimed sub 11 second 1/4 mile. It's more than just a guess that the GT500 will beat the ZL1 in a straight line.

Ok first off dude, don't try to act smart. You know good and well that my comment was a direct reply back to newmoon for saying that we don't know if the ZLE will beat the GT500. Or were you unable to get my point from my reply to his comment? Was I supposed to spell that out for you.

Again, Ford puts out a $74K car with 760 HP that took 6 years to develop and it can beat a ZL1 that costs $10K less, has 110 less HP, and has been unchanged for 3-4 years and that is impressive? Acknowledge that. No more running around the statement Idaho...

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

And you're acting, again, as I have pointed out previously, that performance around a track is all that matters. It's not. Performance-wise, it is at most 50% of what matters (straight line performance being the other half). To most people acceleration is more important than a Ring or VIR time. Whether the base GT500 beats the ZL1 and CFTP G500 beats a ZLE around a track remains to be seen. But that is not the end-all be-all. You have your predictions, and nothing wrong with that, but acting as if acceleration does not matter is blind to the overall performance of the cars. As I've stated previously, Billy Johnson said in an interview Ford Performance took a lot of performance testing data to make sure the GT500 was faster than its competitors. We'll see.

Anyone on the planet can build a car that goes fast in a straight line dude. Dodge did it for $65K and it was called a "Hellcat". It takes a lot more to build a car that is fast in a straight line, fast around a track, fully optioned, comes in at under 4K pounds, and costs under $65K. At this point only one manufacturer on the planet has accomplished that feat and it is GM. They did it with the ZL1 and now with the C8 Vette. Can you deny that?

And I couldn't care less what Billy Johnson said. The only one that MIGHT be faster is the CF version and it costs $24 THOUSAND dollars more. That is hardly something to brag about dude. And I'm betting that the ZLE beats it if not destroys it. So again, can you brag about a car that costs $24 thousand dollars more and is only better at one thing?

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Also, as to why someone would buy a GT500 over a less expensive ZL1 - There's other factors, like acceleration, styling, exclusivity, brand loyalty, the way a car makes them feel, interior design, ergonomics, etc. Also, high horsepower costs money. You can't expect a 760 hp car to cost the same as a 650 hp car, regardless of on track performance. I know, the R has less hp but costs more than a ZL1...the FPC engine is expensive and hand built and CF wheels aren't cheap.

The GT350 sells because people like it. The R sells for the same reason. They are both extremely well balanced and sorted out cars, esp the R. Buyers don't care that a ZL1 could go a bit faster around a track than the R (The ZL1 and the R are very close around a track as proven when Pobst drove both H2H for MT). The R is a different driving experience with the high revving FPC V8. To each his own with regards to the two cars.

You say this as if I care. If someone wants to spend more money on a car that is slower in every way and has engine issues then good for them. If they love the way the engine sounds and love the styling and whatever THAT much that they'll buy it then they are a true Mustang fan who will buy baked dog shit if it was in the shape of the Ford emblem. Fine by me. But for the same money or less I'll have a better car.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Chevy has a 750hp+ 100k+ car that'll whoop the gt500 in everything, the 2019 corvette zr1... and they had the balls to actually put a manual in it a long with the auto.

Yea the Corvette is a tier above and the camaro is the mustangs true rival, but this is a 100k mustang in the cfp version. It put itself in the next price bracket up.

No one should be surprised if the car with an extra 110 hp that costs more is going to be faster, but it better be faster everywhere not just a straight line.

Exactly what I'm saying that Idaho, newmoon, and every other fanboy keeps trying to ignore. Not once has either of them acknowledged that the GT500 not only costs an exorbitant amount more money but also has 110 more HP and has been in development for 6 years. When the ZL1 beat the GT350R sure it had 124 more HP. But the GT350R according to every Ford fanatic had a much better suspension. On top of that the ZL1 was cheaper than the R at MSRP to MSRP. The ZL1 also beat the R in everything without so much as a question. And the R was only 1 year older than the ZL1. So those are vast differences yet the ZL1 beat the R in everything. The Base GT500 is not going to be able to make even half those comments against the ZLE. It will win in one area only and that is a straight line. So what I don't get is what these guys have to talk shit about when it is clear that the GT500 is an inferior car that just costs more money.