[Artos]

Originally Posted by Deki

You'd be surprised, or maybe not, how many people backed out over on m6g.

Backed out simply due to the release of msrp thinking it was too high?? I thought pricing was very close to what I saw when we were guessing said window for months now.

I really like what Ford did here & don't have a problem with Ford's msrp. I totally understand about backing out over ADM but seems odd to here of this sudden back out. ADM is Obviously expected.

I honestly feel the ADM dealers are hurting overall sales...there would be a lot more folks enjoying the 350R (myself included) & bet you would see 500 buys from folks here if they would simply honor msrp.

[Fast02Z06]

Originally Posted by Markoz28

+2!

I have 620/650 to the wheels and I still want more. Car is very manageable but I need more, MORE I SAY!

so we'll said my Texan brother. My C7 Z puts down 750 rwhp and is my dd and I still want more (no kidding). once the mod bug bites you its over.

[SlitherByU]

Originally Posted by Artos

Backed out simply due to the release of msrp thinking it was too high?? I thought pricing was very close to what I saw when we were guessing said window for months now.

I really like what Ford did here & don't have a problem with Ford's msrp. I totally understand about backing out over ADM but seems odd to here of this sudden back out. ADM is Obviously expected.

I honestly feel the ADM dealers are hurting overall sales...there would be a lot more folks enjoying the 350R (myself included) & bet you would see 500 buys from folks here if they would simply honor msrp.

The 2020 GT350R pricing also went up significantly. The R package for 2020 is ridiculously priced at 12K+ now. 2019 it is $7999. 2018 it was $7500.

I think a lot of people went from looking at optioning out a GT500 to just getting a base with maybe 2 options. Black Roof and Tech. I know the dealer where I bought my R from said they're getting one GT500 and it'll be $50K over. It wont matter if it's a base or not.

[Vigilante375]

Some people are thinking that because the GT500 has the crazy $18k track package and even more absurd $10k for racing stripes, that those will calm down the ADM pricing. Lol. Yea right

Dealers will still be dealers and people will be stupid and pay $50k over.

[Artos]

It's a shame...lots of enthusiasts losing an opportunity to own their dream car. I'm all about the free market, but I was the ramrod of Ford it would irk me to no end knowing ADM is limiting annual sales & the expedience of ROI due to the practice.

The son of the Chevy dealer & I grew up together...when I called his Dad about the ZL1 he only had two allocations & held one for me. Told him about the ADM when I looked at the 350R & said he refuses to do that to his customers. "We make a lot of money at or near sticker."

I agree the buyers who pay ADM perpetuate the problem...is what it is I guess.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by drfeelgood

Deki, SlitherByU, good to have you guys on here. IMO, diversity is a good thing, and a difference in opinion is healthy.

I joined a car club that isn't specific to any one brand of vehicle, it's called HeadTurners. Mainly focuses on American Muscle/Pony cars. I have learned a lot about Ford and Mopar over the last few years.

Every one of these companies continues to push the others, and competition keeps them all on their toes, and sharp!

to competition and diversity!

cbr1100xx , you are still a tool and a douche... you provide comedy relief for us, so good to have you in the Zl1 forum also

Your last statement has me cracking up!!!

Originally Posted by Deki

You'd be surprised, or maybe not, how many people backed out over on m6g.

I can't say I blame any of them. The allure to these cars in the past has been that you get the performance of the more expensive cars but you pay much less. So far the only one to keep true to that is the ZL1. Because even the new Hellcat (non-Redeye) when optioned identical to me 17 Hellcat is much more expensive. The GT350 has snuck up in price also. And now you're paying exactly what you'd pay for all those other high end cars but you're only getting the performance. You're not getting luxury or AWD or any of the cool features that the other cars have. The ZL1 is the only one offering full options and coming in under $70K.

But again, this is what happens when people pay those markups. The price of a vehicle is determined by the customer, not the dealership. And if all those people had decided that $80K, $90K, and more was too much to pay for a GT350...or that $90K and more was too much for a Hellcat...or that a $40K markup on a Demon was absurd...and if they all had just refused to pay even a dime over MSRP, then I'm willing to bet that the CF GT500 would be more reasonably priced. I refuse to believe that the GT500 needs to be priced that high. It is not out of necessity to turn a profit. They priced it that high for one reason. And that is because if they charged $75K for the CF version, then some retard would walk into a dealership and pay an extra $15K for one. That is the only reason why they are priced that high. Because if anyone is going to make that extra money, it might as well be Ford. Their customers did it to themselves.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by Artos

It's a shame...lots of enthusiasts losing an opportunity to own their dream car. I'm all about the free market, but I was the ramrod of Ford it would irk me to no end knowing ADM is limiting annual sales & the expedience of ROI due to the practice.

The son of the Chevy dealer & I grew up together...when I called his Dad about the ZL1 he only had two allocations & held one for me. Told him about the ADM when I looked at the 350R & said he refuses to do that to his customers. "We make a lot of money at or near sticker."

I agree the buyers who pay ADM perpetuate the problem...is what it is I guess.

Ford can fix that by producing some cars. It's all about supply and demand and right now the supply is zero.

Heck I paid MSRP minus supplier pricing for the very 1st 2019 ZL1 1LE off the line but dealers knew many more were on the way. Ford has slow leaked this one for years so ADM is expected.

[siggy_30]

I don’t see why people keep complaining about ADM’s. Spend your energy on something more productive. If you were selling your house would you not ask the highest price a willing buyer is willing to pay? Or would you sell it for $50k less because someone really liked it? It’s called capitalism folks. There are many competitors out there.

[Artos]

Originally Posted by mlee

Ford can fix that by producing some cars. It's all about supply and demand and right now the supply is zero.

Heck I paid MSRP minus supplier pricing for the very 1st 2019 ZL1 1LE off the line but dealers knew many more were on the way. Ford has slow leaked this one for years so ADM is expected.

I can understand to some degree at launch Mike, but how does Ford gauge actual demand when folks are walking and/or not even attempting to shop due to the ADM reputation even down the road?? Look how many here passed up the 350R due to ADM on this site & even has ADM today...maybe I'm all wet, but I think Ford would be selling substantially more units. I seriously doubt many 500's will be sold at sticker in 2021.

You actually see the opposite with rules in place for say like the firearm business...they can pull the line if a dealer tries to promote an item below MAP the mfg has set. I understand I'm kicking the can down the road on this topic.

I recall The demand was pretty high due to the late launch of the 50th ZL1 but you just didn't hear of rampant ADM from Chevy dealers. Only a few with most being on the left coast. Total sales of the ZL1 surpass the 350R for a reason on equally priced stickers & think a whole lot more folks would be in the 350R if ADM wasn't such an issue. Just my opinion anyway.

[SlitherByU]

Originally Posted by siggy_30

I don’t see why people keep complaining about ADM’s. Spend your energy on something more productive. If you were selling your house would you not ask the highest price a willing buyer is willing to pay? Or would you sell it for $50k less because someone really liked it? It’s called capitalism folks. There are many competitors out there.

Truth. Also, the gray hair with 3,4,5 years of driving left isn't gonna be patiently waiting for disappearing ADMs. They're in YOLO mode. Now people in my age bracket(mid 40's) will be patiently waiting and searching the web.

[kwav8r]

Originally Posted by Artos

I can understand to some degree at launch Mike, but how does Ford gauge actual demand when folks are walking and/or not even attempting to shop due to the ADM reputation even down the road?? Look how many here passed up the 350R due to ADM on this site & even has ADM today...maybe I'm all wet, but I think Ford would be selling substantially more units. I seriously doubt many 500's will be sold at sticker in 2021.

You actually see the opposite with rules in place for say like the firearm business...they can pull the line if a dealer tries to promote an item below MAP the mfg has set. I understand I'm kicking the can down the road on this topic.

I recall The demand was pretty high due to the late launch of the 50th ZL1 but you just didn't hear of rampant ADM from Chevy dealers. Only a few with most being on the left coast. Total sales of the ZL1 surpass the 350R for a reason on equally priced stickers & think a whole lot more folks would be in the 350R if ADM wasn't such an issue. Just my opinion anyway.

I'd be in a GT350 if it wasn't for the bullshite ADM - I literally laughed at the salesman in Austin and told him I wasn't giving him $10K so I could buy the car. Told him I would leave him my name and number and he could call me when they took the ADM off - he laughed and told me "there's a long list in front of you." To me, that comment spoke volumes and I walked away.

Very happy with the fact that I paid well under sticker and got the car I wanted. I also think the interior is light years beyond the mustang but, that's an opinion.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by Artos

I can understand to some degree at launch Mike, but how does Ford gauge actual demand when folks are walking and/or not even attempting to shop due to the ADM reputation even down the road?? Look how many here passed up the 350R due to ADM on this site & even has ADM today...maybe I'm all wet, but I think Ford would be selling substantially more units. I seriously doubt many 500's will be sold at sticker in 2021.

You actually see the opposite with rules in place for say like the firearm business...they can pull the line if a dealer tries to promote an item below MAP the mfg has set. I understand I'm kicking the can down the road on this topic.

I recall The demand was pretty high due to the late launch of the 50th ZL1 but you just didn't hear of rampant ADM from Chevy dealers. Only a few with most being on the left coast. Total sales of the ZL1 surpass the 350R for a reason on equally priced stickers & think a whole lot more folks would be in the 350R if ADM wasn't such an issue. Just my opinion anyway.

All true, but these dealers don't have 5 or 6 cars on the lot to choose from and they know it's not coming.

It's going to be interesting to watch and see who picks one up around here (H-town). Right now it's just a unicorn.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by SSport16

Let's see if they can get this car to hold down some traction...the last GT500 with 662 HP couldn't even get out of the 4.0's 0-60 times. I still expecting the current ZL1 to be the overall better performance car.

Both C&D and MT got 3.5 seconds:

2013 GT500: C&D: 0-60 in 3.5 seconds:

"The $54,995 GT500 coupe turns in a 0-to-60 sprint of 3.5 seconds. Ferociously tall gearing means third gear is good for 140 mph and first gear is long enough to reach highway speeds."

Motor Trend: 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, 1/4 mile in 11.6 @ 125.7 mph. That trap speed is good for a better time with better traction.

"Hammer it from a stop and the rush of 631 lb-ft engulfs your body, pinning your head and torso to the optional $1595 Recaro bucket as the GT500 blasts from 0-60 mph in a scant 3.5 seconds, on toward a quarter-mile time of 11.6 seconds at 125.7 mph."

[Revalot]

I'm not a dodge fan or ford, But I like what dodge did when the hellcat came out ! If you were a dealer and sold the 1st year hellcat over MSRP the following year you were put on a back burner or just did not get a car at all ! Sounds good to me ! Mark up the car, and next year you loose your allowance !