[RageWorx]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

The b58 power is well documented. It's literally the same motor as the 2016+ bmw 340i, but with minor upgrades (I believe slightly bigger turbos on the supra)


So no need to guess, just head over the the bmw boards. The stock long block record right now is about 650whp I believe. But it just came out in 2016 so they have some discovering to do.


I'm most impressed by the handling. The supra on non super tires pulled 1.07g's on the skidpad. A camaro SS is like .98 g's. An ss 1le is either 1.05 or 1.09 according to the publication.


A 2018 porsche gt3 with pilot sport cup 2's is 1.08 g's.


Unbelievably it seems like it matches ss 1le performance.


There's only one issue I have with the supra, it's that I can go out and buy an ss 1le and have enough money left over for heads/cam, and a vacation.

I agree on the handling aspect of this car and the main reason I'm wanting one .... the strong unexpected strait-line acceleration for "335 hp lol" is just a nice bonus to me.

The current stock long block B58 record is 711 rwhp (but had an upgraded hybrid turbo Big Boost Stage 3 and port injection or Meth).

While you are correct the B58 has been out since 2016 and has been reliable plus putting down impressive numbers since the tuning was cracked (this just happened recently) ..... The Supra is using what is being referred to as the "TU" revision B58 (changes requested by Toyota and applied to the B58 by BMW also Toyota was involved in the development of the B58 the joint dev started in 2012).

The TU revision is said to have a higher pressure fuel system (hpfp,lpfp, and injectors, possibly more volume ), a different turbo (the A90 Supra is rumored to have a larger compressor side than even BMW used on the Z4) a different head/turbo exhaust manifold and some other changes that will slightly change the results of the older B58 so there is still a bit of unknown with the engine/state of tune and some of the other changes that Toyota requested for the A90.

I can also tell you that the A90 Supra B58 in its current tune is all about a long broad torque curve when they start opening up the power in the upper rpm ranges in the tuning we could see more than we are currently seeing in original B58 I wouldn't be surprised.

Price-wise I don't see a huge gap here regarding MSRP but hey I know some people worked out crazy good deals on their Camaros which wont be happening on the A90 Supra granted.

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by RageWorx

I agree on the handling aspect of this car and the main reason I'm wanting one .... the strong unexpected strait-line acceleration for "335 hp lol" is just a nice bonus to me.

The current stock long block B58 record is 711 rwhp (but had an upgraded hybrid turbo Big Boost Stage 3 and port injection or Meth).

While you are correct the B58 has been out since 2016 and has been reliable plus putting down impressive numbers since the tuning was cracked (this just happened recently) ..... The Supra is using what is being referred to as the "TU" revision B58 (changes requested by Toyota and applied to the B58 by BMW also Toyota was involved in the development of the B58 the joint dev started in 2012).

The TU revision is said to have a higher pressure fuel system (hpfp,lpfp, and injectors, possibly more volume ), a different turbo (the A90 Supra is rumored to have a larger compressor side than even BMW used on the Z4) a different head/turbo exhaust manifold and some other changes that will slightly change the results of the older B58 so there is still a bit of unknown with the engine/state of tune and some of the other changes that Toyota requested for the A90.

I can also tell you that the A90 Supra B58 in its current tune is all about a long broad torque curve when they start opening up the power in the upper rpm ranges in the tuning we could see more than we are currently seeing in original B58 I wouldn't be surprised.

Price-wise I don't see a huge gap here regarding MSRP but hey I know some people worked out crazy good deals on their Camaros which wont be happening on the A90 Supra granted.

So it seems like everything pointing to the supra being a modding beast. I mean they left a spot open for a diff cooler, a spot in the engine bay for a strut tower bar, they even reinforced the trunklid so you could put a spoiler on it. All the fake vents are actually real vents you can just open up.

Considering the origional supra was most famous for taking absurd amounts of boost. One might even say it’s more then likely that they intentionally left a lot on table for the motor. Especially with rumors of having a bigger turbo than the z4.

I gotta say, I am inpressed with toyota, that’s pretty awesome.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

So it seems like everything pointing to the supra being a modding beast. I mean they left a spot open for a diff cooler, a spot in the engine bay for a strut tower bar, they even reinforced the trunklid so you could put a spoiler on it. All the fake vents are actually real vents you can just open up.

Considering the origional supra was most famous for taking absurd amounts of boost. One might even say it’s more then likely that they intentionally left a lot on table for the motor. Especially with rumors of having a bigger turbo than the z4.

I gotta say, I am inpressed with toyota, that’s pretty awesome.

I am as well this thing is going to be a beast with minor modifications.

[Baldilocks01SS]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I am as well this thing is going to be a beast with minor modifications.

Just imagine if it was AWD? Not hard to make a lot of power with a tuned German turbo. Hell, my little Golf R will run 10s and I've got barely 5 grand in upgrades. But, at the end of the day, it just doesn't feel as special as a Camaro.

[BMKY]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

The b58 power is well documented. It's literally the same motor as the 2016+ bmw 340i, but with minor upgrades (I believe slightly bigger turbos on the supra)


So no need to guess, just head over the the bmw boards. The stock long block record right now is about 650whp I believe. But it just came out in 2016 so they have some discovering to do.


I'm most impressed by the handling. The supra on non super tires pulled 1.07g's on the skidpad. A camaro SS is like .98 g's. An ss 1le is either 1.05 or 1.09 according to the publication.


A 2018 porsche gt3 with pilot sport cup 2's is 1.08 g's.


Unbelievably it seems like it matches ss 1le performance.


There's only one issue I have with the supra, it's that I can go out and buy an ss 1le and have enough money left over for heads/cam, and a vacation.

It is mostly likely to pay the MSRP, even + some dealer markup for the supra in the first few model years. While we can get much discount on Camaro. But the new supra should keep its value better than our camaros.

[shaffe]

Not going to lie while the cost is a bit on the steep side, it did put up better numbers than I was expecting

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Not going to lie while the cost is a bit on the steep side, it did put up better numbers than I was expecting

It put up ridiculous numbers

If you compare its performance to msrp, it is pretty damn close to the camaro and corvette, all iterations of them.

Camaro and corvette, no matter what trim level, have a performance for the dollar ratio that crush every other car ever, with a mustang right behind it.

Supra is on that level if you compared it to msrp vs msrp

Unfortunately in the real world the american cars can be had with huge discounts, but it’s still impressive regardless.

[lawguy85]

Here to eat some humble pie. I was adamant that Toyota wasn't sandbagging HP numbers because 1) its a BMW thing, not Toyota and 2) there was no incentive to. But based on C&D's testing and all the glowing YouTube reviews/impressions it's clear that number can't be accurate. The Ecoboost mustang and 370 have similar HP figures and are over a second slower to 60 while being in the same ballpark weight wise. The Z8 can't account for that wide a gap alone.

I really thought a Vette would be my next, this has become very compelling. What really impressed me is how few options/packages there are. Starts at $50k, one package above at $55k, one group of options for $1,200 more. Only question left is how dealers will act...

[lawguy85]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Not going to lie while the cost is a bit on the steep side, it did put up better numbers than I was expecting

A comparable Camaro (2SS, MRC, dual mode exhaust,10 speed) is $50k and wouldn't really compare to the Supra's interior. Of course you wouldn't actually pay that much, but costs are identical when you factor in what comes standard on the Supra.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

It put up ridiculous numbers

If you compare its performance to msrp, it is pretty damn close to the camaro and corvette, all iterations of them.

Camaro and corvette, no matter what trim level, have a performance for the dollar ratio that crush every other car ever, with a mustang right behind it.

Supra is on that level if you compared it to msrp vs msrp

Unfortunately in the real world the american cars can be had with huge discounts, but it’s still impressive regardless.

With Camaro LT1 now starting at $35k I think the Camaro is a lot less, but base Camaro is probably more stripped down vs Supra.

I got a 1SS 1LE for $39k in late 2018.

The Supra is a much smaller car, seems more 'Vette sized, maybe more of a Stingray competitor than Camaro. The auto trans kills it for me though, no way would I buy a car like that with an auto.

I hope the new C8 Vette base model comes in near Supra's price and is much better. We'll see soon enough!

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

With Camaro LT1 now starting at $35k I think the Camaro is a lot less, but base Camaro is probably more stripped down vs Supra.

I got a 1SS 1LE for $39k in late 2018.

The Supra is a much smaller car, seems more 'Vette sized, maybe more of a Stingray competitor than Camaro. The auto trans kills it for me though, no way would I buy a car like that with an auto.

I hope the new C8 Vette base model comes in near Supra's price and is much better. We'll see soon enough!

I would think the supra would be best compared to the 2ss 1le as far as features and performance. While I certainly haven’t seen the supra interior, and I actually thought the camaro interior was pretty good, it looks like the supra might have an edge on the interior.

New auto’s are pretty nice. What I loved about the camaro auto was the 1-2 shift. You’d have to pretty much power shift a manual to be even close. Lord did that 1-2 shift feel good at WOT launching. The auto is almost worth it for that.

My perfect car would be auto on the 1-2 shift and then stick shift.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

I would think the supra would be best compared to the 2ss 1le as far as features and performance. While I certainly haven’t seen the supra interior, and I actually thought the camaro interior was pretty good, it looks like the supra might have an edge on the interior.

New auto’s are pretty nice. What I loved about the camaro auto was the 1-2 shift. You’d have to pretty much power shift a manual to be even close. Lord did that 1-2 shift feel good at WOT launching. The auto is almost worth it for that.

My perfect car would be auto on the 1-2 shift and then stick shift.

2SS adds about $4500, but interior is very subjective... I don't value a "high end" interior very much TBH. Most of it is smoke and mirrors and a $.10 difference in the way the plastic "feels", lol...

I did spend a couple hundred on leather trimmed knee pads on the door and center console though, the plain plastic there is ridiculous.

Camaro also does have no-lift-to-shift on the manuals, 1>2 on my 1LE can happen very quickly, and 2nd takes you to about 70 mph. I think C&D got a 1LE to turn in a 3.9 sec 0-60.

I do think it's likely the new C8 will be a good Supra competitor and will probably offer better performance and a DCT rather than a slushbox. IMO it's a better comparison vs the Camaro... The Camaro is just so much larger, like a GT vs a sports car.

[Boost Creep]

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I think you all are forgetting one thing. The new Supra only traps 113 mph in the 1/4 mile. Its likely underrated but probably by only 25-30 hp. It's times are fast because it puts the power down well, and probably has superior launching software, and is much lighter than the Camaro SS and GT. It matches the GT* 0-60 but it is 0.2 sec slower and 7 mph behind at the 1/4 mile (GT*=12.1@120 mph). Also, the A10 SS is 12.2 @ 118 mph in the 1/4. Both cars, from a roll, will walk away from the new Supra.

My opinion is that the Supra looks ugly. I nearly, but not quite, hate the looks. From every angle. Maybe it'll look better in person.

I most definitely don't have Supra envy and won't be buying one. That said, I'm sure it will drive very well and am glad the Supra is back.