[17CamaroZL1]

Originally Posted by hashtag

DCT or not the 10 speed is working. 2020 GT500 Sub 11 second quarter mile is a fail.

I agree if it's what we're all thinking. High 10s. If it's mid to low 10s, then it's a win. I really don't see the DCT being that much better than the A10, if any at all.

[tbrennyZL1]

Originally Posted by 17CamaroZL1

I agree if it's what we're all thinking. High 10s. If it's mid to low 10s, then it's a win. I really don't see the DCT being that much better than the A10, if any at all.

It’ll be interesting. The rumors are they tested in normal air and ran 10.8@133 the time isn’t special but that Trap!! That’s a mid 10 trap. They’re still testing and tweaking though so who knows. I wonder who’ll be the first of the big 3 to use one of their big hp engines and say F-it, AWD and run low 10’s all day.

[Alain]

Originally Posted by shaffe

They sat out last gen, what makes you think they will do anything different this time around?

Well, last generation the game was a little different. the difference is the introduction to the scene of the 700+ horsepower Hellcat. Up until that point no one really thought about making a 700+ horsepower muscle car so I’m sure there was a lot of hesitation to spend the money on engineering an engine and putting it in a Camaro to cross that line.

When Tim Kuniskis revealed the horsepower of the Hellcat 4 years ago and he used the line “this is the most powerful muscle car in history, 707 horsepower” the game changed! The popularity of the Hellcat proved that the game has changed so now, in order to be taken seriously you have to be in the 700 horsepower club.

The last generation Zl1 at its stock horsepower rating wouldn’t Raise anyone’s eyebrow.

Different ball game we are playing these days.

[DangerZL1]

Originally Posted by Alain

Different ball game we are playing these days.

Absolutely. That’s why Chevy needs a pinch hitter with 750 Hp.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Just tell us Why GM should build such a car from their perspective. If it’s sound, there’s no further discussion necessary.

OK I’ll bite.

1. Incremental direct material and labor production costs for parts bin LT5 and associated driveline is small relative to the incremental gross margin for what I would price it at: $20k over ZL1. Capex for a new aluminum hood to make room for the blower is trivial. So to me it’s not a cash flow issue or P&L issue.

2. Engineering, software, development, regulatory registration and validation is less trivial if human resources are constrained, and in most modern public companies they are. This is a time issue more than a money issue, and based on their effort allocation GM already knows if they can or cannot do it.

3. Branding and marketing/advertising costs are cakewalk if they call it Z/28. And this allows a final Gen6 model year release. Halo cars sell themselves as long as they have radios and AC.

So if they can swing the peeps, they can easily do it.

How’d I do?

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

OK I’ll bite.

1. Incremental direct material and labor production costs for parts bin LT5 and associated driveline is small relative to the incremental gross margin for what I would price it at: $20k over ZL1. Capex for a new aluminum hood to make room for the blower is trivial. So to me it’s not a cash flow issue or P&L issue.

2. Engineering, software, development, regulatory registration and validation is less trivial if human resources are constrained, and in most modern public companies they are. This is a time issue more than a money issue, and based on their effort allocation GM already knows if they can or cannot do it.

3. Branding and marketing/advertising costs are cakewalk if they call it Z/28. And this allows a final Gen6 model year release. Halo cars sell themselves as long as they have radios and AC.

So if they can swing the peeps, they can easily do it.

How’d I do?

He is going to write so much that you will wish you never responded. He’s probably typing with his team right now.

[Vtor_ZL1]

Makes are abandoning auto shows in biiggg numbers.


Big spends, not much of a return.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

He is going to write so much that you will wish you never responded. He’s probably typing with his team right now.

Hahahaha, you made me laugh.

Nah but in reality, I type around 110-120 WPM and I rarely spend more than a few minutes writing a post.

As for his arguments, eh, I think they're smoothing out the process way too much, lots of assumption of cost and difficulty. We'll see.

[Squatch]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Hahahaha, you made me laugh.

Nah but in reality, I type around 110-120 WPM and I rarely spend more than a few minutes writing a post.

As for his arguments, eh, I think they're smoothing out the process way too much, lots of assumption of cost and difficulty. We'll see.

Those are rookie typing numbers, you better pump those up !

[HDRDTD]

Originally Posted by Squatch

Those are rookie typing numbers, you better pump those up !

I can usually do 15-20 WPM. I use the Bible method when I type.

'Seek and thou shall find'


OK, where's than damn J key. Found it, now looking for the A key, …….

[~Jb]

Ok, I'll play again, but please keep in mind that just this past year I became a first time GM owner, hell the ZLE is technically the first "muscle car" I have owned, so take what I say with grains of salt, because it simply the opinion of an outsider (hopefully future Camaro enthusiast) looking in.

First, to give my opinion on the LT5 in the current generation Camaro, no. Why spend the time and resources to drop that motor in? The alpha platform is pretty awesome, but still why,? I mean even if it were a parts bin special? How many people really want an iPhone 6 with the processing chip from an iPhone 10?

Second, and this may be my newness to the brand, but isn't the Z/28 moniker always naturally aspirated? Which is why the ZLE was not the Z/28? And isn't the LT5 supercharged? Again, I have no idea how these motors translate with or without boost, LS this, LT that, I'm learning so by no means do I know what I am talking about yet, but I thought the LT5 is supercharged?

Lastly, and the biggest point of all this dinosaur talk, what about electric? I'm a younger thirty-something male gear head that hates the overall idea of Jetson sounding EV's, but the reality is what it is. Every other car brand has embraced the electric or hybrid technology, except for the big three. This silly American muscle car dick swinging horsepower contest is actually quite funny to me. I mean what does the market really look like for a $100k version of a $30k platform?

Here's my high horsepower Demon, here's my high horsepower Camaro, here's my high horsepower GT whatever sportscar, and there goes a Tesla sedan silently beating the tar out of all of them. Then comes the classic forum argument, but there's no sound, there's no driving experience, blah blah blah. Fact is The Demon is automatic, the new GT500 is automatic, and surprise surprise everyone on these forums seemingly love the A10. So the driving experience has slowly been fading for years and soon enough everyone will jump on board and everything will be auto. Fact is the Redeye and the GT500 are DOA, they will probably sell and do fairly well, but the real winner will be whomever in this segment brings hybrid or electric to the masses. Maybe GM realized this and went out big with the ZLE . . . for now . . . *cough* eCOPO *cough*


Now, all that said I just recently bought a ZLE. Is it the nicest ride? No. Fastest car with the most horsepower? Nope. Nicest Materials? Not even close, but to me it felt the most like a drivers car (I test drove a 350 and a Hellcat for comparison) and was only available in sweet spot six-speed manual, so here I am.

[Alain]

Dodge is putting an electric motor in the challenger in the near future. They have just admitted that the days of the supercharged V8 are numbered (at least for them). This is coming from the new head of FCA, so there you have it.

Ford is rumored to be doing the same thing with their eco boost engine in the mustang.

Maybe GM is on that same path and we don't know it yet. Maybe this will be the last supercharged V8 Camaro, I am starting to lean more and more towards that reality. If that's the case, then 15 years from now those of us who held on to these cars will probably be glad we did (I know I will).

Manual Transmissions are all eventually going to go away as well. This dual clutch hype is slowly becoming the norm.

That's why I plan on keeping my two cars.
I'll be the old dude at the car show with the manual tranny and the supercharged V8 telling all the young dudes how I lived through the change in scenery.

Sure, they might be faster than me with their electric motors + turbo V6s (or whatever the hell combustion engine they end up putting in these things).

But their cars wont sound or drive like a Hellcat or one of these ZLEs. I'll be perfectly happy with that. lol

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by ~Jb

Second, and this may be my newness to the brand, but isn't the Z/28 moniker always naturally aspirated? Which is why the ZLE was not the Z/28? And isn't the LT5 supercharged? Again, I have no idea how these motors translate with or without boost, LS this, LT that, I'm learning so by no means do I know what I am talking about yet, but I thought the LT5 is supercharged?

yes the Z/28 has always been NA. The 5th Gen ZL1 was originally going to be called Z/28, but it was eventually decided against because of the supercharged engine.

[Bhobbs]

GM doesn’t respond because they don’t care. GM releases a product and moves on. They haven’t upgraded an engine during its lifespan since the LS6 and that was almost 20 years ago. The only time they change engines is if one goes out of production, like the 98 Camaro getting the LS1.