[FoundNemo]

Any thoughts on the knock threshold values used on my buddy's car's tune? The tuner doubled the thresholds across the board which seems like an excessive change for just headers. Everything otherwise is reasonable in the timing tables.

Picture attached shows the tuned tables vs OEM for Cyl 8. Same thing was done on all cylinders. Transients and EQ Ratio were not modified. IAT/ECT/PE COT tables have lower values in the left axis than stock, likely to keep the car reasonable on timing so not concerned with the commanded timing, but he does want the car protected from knock well.

[radz28]

I'll have to remember to check with my buddy and see what's different.

[FoundNemo]

Originally Posted by radz28

I'll have to remember to check with my buddy and see what's different.

I know what is different, I just dont know how conservative the values they used are. Do you have a comparable tune file I can look at for a 17+ ZL1 A10 car with headers and a tune?

They doubled the values across the board regarding what knock sensor data is counted as knock, effectively dumbing them down, but not sure how safe that is.

[KingLT1]

That looks about right...the stock values are overly sensitive.

[FoundNemo]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

That looks about right...the stock values are overly sensitive.

Thank you very much for the prompt reply. This is a very reputable shop but I asked because desensitizing stuff makes me a bit antsy.

[radz28]

Are you over on HPTuners' forum? HA. If so - there is LOTS to learn there. Searching can be a little hit-or-miss, but there's a lot of knowledge there. Some have said there's more useful knowledge shared there then in any training media you can buy. That might be a bit of a stretch, but if you have the time to read, it's worth it. Soon - you'll be as cool as King'

[KingLT1]

I don't really care to be a cool cat. Something in me likes to help others so they are getting the most out of their investment. Probably because I have been screwed over by shops in my younger years...so I decided to learn how to do a lot of the stuff myself. I bet 80% + of the setups that leave most shops have a lot left in them or are not tuned correctly.

The issue is tuning takes a lot of time. Everybody wants to offer competitive tuning rates. People bitch when a tune cost 600.00. The fact is if I got into the tuning business as a career, I wouldn't charge less then 1200.00 to tune any full build. WOT is easy...it's all the small tweaks to get the car to drive and perform overall like it did when it left the factory. a 600.00 tune isn't going to get you there because the tuner is losing money if he spends the amount of time it takes to dial in a combo. And this is why I'll never get into tuning as a profession and simply keep it a hobby.

My advice to anybody would be to get a base tune from a reputable tuner, then finish the rest yourself. With HPtuners at our fingertips and all the available info out there, the basics can be learned fairly easily.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by FoundNemo

Thank you very much for the prompt reply. This is a very reputable shop but I asked because desensitizing stuff makes me a bit antsy.

A very reputable shop didn't get that way from using bad tuning parameters. Food for thought.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

I don't really care to be a cool cat. Something in me likes to help others so they are getting the most out of their investment. Probably because I have been screwed over by shops in my younger years...so I decided to learn how to do a lot of the stuff myself. I bet 80% + of the setups that leave most shops have a lot left in them or are not tuned correctly.

The issue is tuning takes a lot of time. Everybody wants to offer competitive tuning rates. People bitch when a tune cost 600.00. The fact is if I got into the tuning business as a career, I wouldn't charge less then 1200.00 to tune any full build. WOT is easy...it's all the small tweaks to get the car to drive and perform overall like it did when it left the factory. a 600.00 tune isn't going to get you there because the tuner is losing money if he spends the amount of time it takes to dial in a combo. And this is why I'll never get into tuning as a profession and simply keep it a hobby.

My advice to anybody would be to get a base tune from a reputable tuner, then finish the rest yourself. With HPtuners at our fingertips and all the available info out there, the basics can be learned fairly easily.

I 100% agree. I try to post helpful information as best as I can understand when possible for pretty much exactly the same reasons. I'm always learning. I always hope I'm learning correctly, too, and hope that's the kind of information I'm posting.

My buddy's car has taken probably a year to get as far as it has. There was a lot of down-time, but even if I added-up all the actual tuning time together, it was DEFINITELY more than $600 worth of time. We got help, too. Someone more knowledgeable turned the knobs we knew nothing about, and we're just polishing the harder stuff, like VVE/VTT. We coulda' gotten away with out polishing, but, we're now getting full commanded spark and throttle all the time and we weren't before. Maybe that blip of TMA/throttle closure didn't amount to much, but it was there, and we couldn't ignore seeing it .

[Camaro1973]

Andrew had to desensitize my knock sensors close to where these are when i had kooks headers. When we swapped to CSP headers and changed nothing else he lowered them back down to stock.


I've seen sensors much more desensitized then in your tune, but you are showing 2-3 degrees of knock on every pull.


I commented on your other post, you have so many now.

[FoundNemo]

Originally Posted by Camaro1973

Andrew had to desensitize my knock sensors close to where these are when i had kooks headers. When we swapped to CSP headers and changed nothing else he lowered them back down to stock.


I've seen sensors much more desensitized then in your tune, but you are showing 2-3 degrees of knock on every pull.


I commented on your other post, you have so many now.

Tuner is saying even the stock car will have constant KR on a WOT pull and its normal. Doesnt sound right to me. The car again does have a post-cat exhaust leak but I doubt that noise is causing all the knock.

[XXX ZL1]

These cars are very over sensitive in regards to Knock retard. I soften the tables, but not quite as much as those. I just haven’t seen the need to, but the values posted aren’t out of range and will be no issue. The shop that did the tune is solid reputation wise and Ron is top notch. Any issues and Ron will address immediately as he is a solid dude.

[FoundNemo]

Originally Posted by XXX ZL1

These cars are very over sensitive in regards to Knock retard. I soften the tables, but not quite as much as those. I just haven’t seen the need to, but the values posted aren’t out of range and will be no issue. The shop that did the tune is solid reputation wise and Ron is top notch. Any issues and Ron will address immediately as he is a solid dude.

The knock retard is only showing in the total knock, not in any individual counts. Looks like preemptive burst knock retard considering its always consistent and always 0 on knock retard itself.