[White1SS]

Originally Posted by WiggyB

If I was to do it all over again to get in that 600-650whp range I would do the LT4 highside, JMS BAP, headers and a P1X Procharger. That should get you where you want to be and keep you from over doing it.

That's pretty much exactly what I'm looking for, but hoping to do it with the factory headers. 600+ whp on 94 with a splash or two of race fuel would be perfect. E is not easily obtainable in my immediate area. Strictly a street driven fair weather car, 3k miles a year or so. Plus I l love the idle sound of a helical ProCharger, the sound of a good blow-off valve, and the smell of race fuel !

[WiggyB]

Originally Posted by White1SS

That's pretty much exactly what I'm looking for, but hoping to do it with the factory headers. 600+ whp on 94 with a splash or two of race fuel would be perfect. E is not easily obtainable in my immediate area. Strictly a street driven fair weather car, 3k miles a year or so. Plus I l love the idle sound of a helical ProCharger, the sound of a good blow-off valve, and the smell of race fuel !

That should do you just right. Wish I would have gotten the P1X in the factory setup instead of the P1SC1 you can make 50hp more with the same pulley. I'm where I wanted to be but had to pulley down to get there.

[White1SS]

Originally Posted by WiggyB

That should do you just right. Wish I would have gotten the P1X in the factory setup instead of the P1SC1 you can make 50hp more with the same pulley. I'm where I wanted to be but had to pulley down to get there.

I'm fortunate to come late to the party and can utilize the wealth of knowledge fellows like yourself and many others have gained through the years. Much experimentation, trial and error, and real world results are just a search or post away for us late comers, saving us much time and expense.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by White1SS

Hello Ted,
Do you offer a ProCharger package ? Something ~600whp on 94, maybe 650whp on 94 with a bit of race fuel added in ?
Thanks,
Joe

Yes sir I do please call. 203-753-7223

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by WiggyB

If I was to do it all over again to get in that 600-650whp range I would do the LT4 highside, JMS BAP, headers and a P1X Procharger. That should get you where you want to be and keep you from over doing it.

Don't forget the LT4 injectors.

Pre 18 cars need the LT4 in tank pump as well.

Ted.

[Eldi Z]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Don't forget the LT4 injectors.

Pre 18 cars need the LT4 in tank pump as well.

Ted.

Unless they are SS with the 1LE option - These already have the LT4 Low side pump in the tank from the factory

[laynlo15]

My 2022 Lt1 made a simple 707/669 on E65 with Maggie 2300 (used), Toohighpsi port injection with stock Lt1 fuel system except for a JMS boost pump. Had totally stock Lt1, stock exhaust front to rear, stock A10 that was unlocked. We made just on just 11 psi of boost. Believe me 707 will make plenty of power to get you in the high 9s with a drag pack and good tuning. Mine ran a best of 9.80@142.96 and was a great daily driver. You can push past that 750 rwhp number but your chances of breaking pistons as I did on my 16 SS at 770 rwhp. That was no fun building a forged motor because I just couldn't stop pushing it. I did survive over 180 passes down that track and many of those over 15 psi of boost. So keep it safe and you'll have a great street car that you can take to the track and beat on it safely.

[Eldi Z]

What if only 93 pump @ ~ 8 PSI boost with an LT4 blower is in the plans on a stock LT1 / SBE ?

Will 560-580 WHP running full LT4 fueling (Injectors, HPFP, LPFP) be safe and reliable for a streetable DD, long-term?

[White1SS]

Originally Posted by Eldi Z

What if only 93 pump @ ~ 8 PSI boost with an LT4 blower is in the plans on a stock LT1 / SBE ?

Will 560-580 WHP running full LT4 fueling (Injectors, HPFP, LPFP) be safe and reliable for a streetable DD, long-term?

From what I've seen from the top builders/tuners on the site, 580+whp should be no problem and trouble free at ~8psi on 93 with LT4 fueling and tune.

[White1SS]

Let me make sure I'm understanding all of this correctly. E fuel does not contain the same amount of energy as gasoline, but has a higher octane and doesn't knock as easily as typical pump gas. For NA motors either fuel will work, even straight E85 will work because the stock pump/injectors can supply enough E fuel for the proper air/fuel mixture. However, when going with forced induction, the factory fuel pump/injectors cannot supply enough E fuel to match the added air being pushed into the cylinders. On lower boost FI engines, LT4 fueling can supply enough E85 fuel to make a proper air/fuel ratio, as boost goes up, you may need to lower your E% to something like ~E60 for a proper air/fuel mixture. E fuel runs cooler due to having more liquid volume in the cylinder than gasoline, and its higher octane actually burns slower and more controlled than lower octane gasoline.


If instead of E you're running 93 octane gasoline, your factory LT1 fuel system can supply enough fuel for a proper air/fuel mixture to maybe 7-8psi boost with a proper tune, although you might have to sacrifice some HP via less timing to prevent knock. High octane race fuel might allow you to reach E fuel HP numbers with the factory LT1 fuel system.


89 octane pump gas and 110 octane race fuel contain the same amount of energy. The benefit of race fuel is its slower more controlled burn, and its ability to resist knock. It has no more punch than pump 89. A cup of 89 and cup of 110 race fuel contain the same amount energy, with both having more energy than a cup of E85, or E% anything for that matter.


Does most of this sound correct ?

[cjperformance]

Yep. You got it. Or at least it matches my own understanding!

Also, I believe that even though E has less energy content at a given VOLUME of fuel, because you burn more VOLUME of E compared to gasoline per power stroke, E will come out on top in terms of energy vs time (or power stroke) however you want to think about it.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Eldi Z

What if only 93 pump @ ~ 8 PSI boost with an LT4 blower is in the plans on a stock LT1 / SBE ?

Will 560-580 WHP running full LT4 fueling (Injectors, HPFP, LPFP) be safe and reliable for a streetable DD, long-term?

Correct we have built many this way as a entry level supercharger upgrade, the LT4 fuel system is KEY!

Originally Posted by White1SS

From what I've seen from the top builders/tuners on the site, 580+whp should be no problem and trouble free at ~8psi on 93 with LT4 fueling and tune.

Correct!

Originally Posted by White1SS

Let me make sure I'm understanding all of this correctly. E fuel does not contain the same amount of energy as gasoline, but has a higher octane and doesn't knock as easily as typical pump gas. For NA motors either fuel will work, even straight E85 will work because the stock pump/injectors can supply enough E fuel for the proper air/fuel mixture. However, when going with forced induction, the factory fuel pump/injectors cannot supply enough E fuel to match the added air being pushed into the cylinders. On lower boost FI engines, LT4 fueling can supply enough E85 fuel to make a proper air/fuel ratio, as boost goes up, you may need to lower your E% to something like ~E60 for a proper air/fuel mixture. E fuel runs cooler due to having more liquid volume in the cylinder than gasoline, and its higher octane actually burns slower and more controlled than lower octane gasoline.


If instead of E you're running 93 octane gasoline, your factory LT1 fuel system can supply enough fuel for a proper air/fuel mixture to maybe 7-8psi boost with a proper tune, although you might have to sacrifice some HP via less timing to prevent knock. High octane race fuel might allow you to reach E fuel HP numbers with the factory LT1 fuel system.


89 octane pump gas and 110 octane race fuel contain the same amount of energy. The benefit of race fuel is its slower more controlled burn, and its ability to resist knock. It has no more punch than pump 89. A cup of 89 and cup of 110 race fuel contain the same amount energy, with both having more energy than a cup of E85, or E% anything for that matter.


Does most of this sound correct ?

If you have E-85 readily available around you it is your best option for engine protection as well as the added benefit of more power.

Keep in mind always; You need about 30% more fuel by volume for E-85 vs Gasoline so it puts a lot more demand on the fuel system and you will reach the limits of the fuel system pretty fast with FI.

I was corrected on this a while ago, Race Gas and Pump gas do not have the same amount of available energy content, but close.

Diesel, jet fuel, then 87 are the 3 highest from what I can find. https://www.appropedia.org/Energy_content_of_fuels

[KingLT1]

Just note I have had to remove timing from X shop "safe" pump gas tune because the car was showing 2-3 degrees KR. For example, a P1x car with LT4 fuel system @ 8-9psi peak. It would only tolerate 11-12 degrees timing on a 90 degree day...previous shop was commanding 14-15. That isn't safe imo. I can probably go back and find the data logs for proof of need be.

The fact that the engine will only run that much timing without knock tells me there isn't enough octane being used.

I wouldn't run anymore than 6-7psi on 93 octane. What the dyno shows isn't the same as the street.

I have no monetary gain here, I am not trying to sell you parts or a package for profit. I am simply the guy who has debunked a lot of bullshit on his own free time with countless hours invested into testing my car on the "Street" where it matters most.

The LT1 doesn't even like pump gas NA. It's one of the few engines out there that gains 25-30whp on E85 alone with no other mods. That should tell you all you need to know.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Just note I have had to remove timing from X shop "safe" pump gas tune because the car was showing 2-3 degrees KR. For example, a P1x car with LT4 fuel system @ 8-9psi peak. It would only tolerate 11-12 degrees timing on a 90 degree day...previous shop was commanding 14-15. That isn't safe imo. I can probably go back and find the data logs for proof of need be.

The fact that the engine will only run that much timing without knock tells me there isn't enough octane being used.

I wouldn't run anymore than 6-7psi on 93 octane. What the dyno shows isn't the same as the street.

I have no monetary gain here, I am not trying to sell you parts or a package for profit. I am simply the guy who has debunked a lot of bullshit on his own free time with countless hours invested into testing my car on the "Street" where it matters most.

The LT1 doesn't even like pump gas NA. It's one of the few engines out there that gains 25-30whp on E85 alone with no other mods. That should tell you all you need to know.

Yep, 11 is my go to on 93 octane pump gas.