06-04-2013, 12:07 PM | #57 | |
Est.1775
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06-04-2013, 12:19 PM | #58 |
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06-04-2013, 01:02 PM | #59 | |
corner barstool sitter
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Even F-Stock is allowed to run on better tires than the 5th gen Z/28 ships with. I can't comment on C-M-C; I've never seen the rulebook. If you're trying to say that the 3rd/4th gen Camaros were decent platforms for their time as something to start from, sure. But that's not quite the same as either this new Z/28 or the original that makes no excuses as to its intent from the get-go. Norm |
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06-04-2013, 01:11 PM | #60 | |
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That's all I was trying to say. |
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06-04-2013, 01:26 PM | #61 | |
not afraid of the wall
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Again, I am not involved in SCCA other than the two days I participated and met Sam when I owned my 2000 (which, incidentally, was bumped into a higher class because I had subframe connectors). With that said, most serious racers are going to change whatever they can to gain a competitive edge -- that is, whatever is allowed in their class. I'd expect nothing different with the 5th gen Z/28 (the only ones that will likely stay stock are one's that won't ever be used for their intended purpose). At the end of the day, the point I was trying to make is what you were surmising at the end of your post with 3rd and 4th gens being competitive in the context of their competition at the time. I'd also venture to guess that one would have invested significantly less to make their "stock" Z28 into something competitive on the track compared to this [presumably] $70k monster. I am not saying that in a negative light, mind you, but just saying the 80's/90's Z28 was more "grass roots budget" friendly than this LS7 monster is going to be.
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06-05-2013, 03:29 PM | #62 |
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I think we're splitting hairs at this point. The intent for each of the three generation of camaros that were talking about IMO were very different from each other. In the first generation, the camaro wasn't paying homage to anything, so its focus was to offer an alternative to the mustang. The z/28 was a new offering that promised great track handling and affordable small block power. By the time the f-platform reached its pinnacle in the 4th generation, the z28's focus became more or less generic within the camaro line, due in part to the fact that it was a long running model with a legendary past, in which IMO the focus on exclusivity was not present. Ironically the 4th gens were faster, handled better and were more reliable than the first gens, but with the 4th gens they seemed somewhat standardized with its theme (thus z28, then z28SS, then z28 and ss, with the ss being an option for the z28).
With the 5th gens, we have more distinctiveness with the z/28 with some homage cues and an exciting power and handling package. Even with the 5th gen models, some compromise found their way in the offerings. High horsepower and good handling came at a cost of increased weight, bulk and a higher sticker price. So its really not comparing apples to apples when looking at a 1st gen to a 4th gen to a 5th gen. Each generation's focus was influenced by its competitiors, the technology of the time, and prevailing government standards. All of the generations provided great performance for the money.
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06-05-2013, 03:40 PM | #63 | |
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to the second point, to me it is apples to apples. the Z28 was the top of the line Camaro. the 1970 was by all accounts an even better car with better handling and the same acceleration. the third and fourth generations had cornering power the first generation certainly did not. so if we're not talking about actual performance I don't know what the hell we're talking about.
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06-05-2013, 03:49 PM | #64 |
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^True, but you do have to consider the technology available for the generations at the time. The first gens were trendsetters, as well as the second gen. However, the automobiles at those times didn't have the suspension and tire advantages that the 3rd, 4th and 5th gens had. Its great that the ladder day camaros outperformed their predecessors, but they did so as a result of the advancement of technology and lessons learned from building prior camaros.
Now...imagine a factory built first gen with an ls3, lowering springs, bilstein shocks and brembos. That would strike fear in (almost) any other factory built camaro!
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06-05-2013, 03:52 PM | #65 |
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not getting your point. everything gets better. still means whatever is the best Camaro AT THAT TIME is a Z28. I love all Camaros. I've owned multiple generations, read books and have decades old magazines on them. since the new 'Z/28' was shown it's the first I've heard that a "Z28 is not a Z/28".
my point is now this thing has started, 'it's not a a real Z without the slash' well if it performs as good or better , how is it it not a real Z? if it's not all of us that owned them should sue GM for false advertising.
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Last edited by AZCamaroFan; 06-05-2013 at 04:05 PM. |
06-05-2013, 05:37 PM | #66 | |
Est.1775
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06-05-2013, 06:50 PM | #67 |
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^My point is that its "pointless" to compare the different generations just based on their performance numbers, because all things are not equal in terms of how each generation of camaros were made, and how each generation produced their performance numbers.
I'm sure the "/" means something, but IMO I think analyzing the slash is an academic point as well. The slash means that chevy is associating this model, by name and its performance characteristics, closely to the first generation (obvious).
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06-05-2013, 07:21 PM | #68 | |
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That is the point I am trying to make. |
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06-05-2013, 08:18 PM | #69 |
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...actually, the slash as it's referred to was dropped after 1969, 1970 through 1974 Camaro's Z28's used the same emblem....without the slash....
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06-06-2013, 03:42 AM | #70 |
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everyone likes what they like lol
I've owned 6 Camaro's and 4 of which were t-tops. My 2 hardtops were fun as hell to drive in the twisties, but I loved my t-top cars more. btw I hate it when people put SS hood's on a Z28, why not just buy the SS in the first place?
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