05-26-2017, 10:02 AM | #449 |
Drives: Camaro Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 157
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I would agree with both statements, these cars are all pretty amazing machines and perform at such a high level that the differences are going to be smaller and smaller. However .4 of a second adds up quickly in a real race and that will become a MUCH larger difference the longer it goes.
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05-26-2017, 10:47 AM | #450 | |
Drives: Raptor Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 126
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I am happy with the track reviews on the zl1 because they are generally positive and everyone says the car is balanced, and nobody says it tries to kill you, which is good because i am an an amateur (with some experience) and i intend to get this car on the track. I bet as a purely track car i would have more fun in the gt350r then the car I ordered, I like a rev happy na engine and a manual gearbox, but track time is a small fraction of what this car will be doing, and it will still do it very well. I wanted a car that my wife could drive (at), that i could take to the track on occasion, that would do stupid burnouts, and be comfortable enough to drive to and from Lake Tahoe (200 miles each way), an make me giggle when i mash the skinny pedal on the way home from work. ZL1 ticked all those boxes. If you're not careful these cars will make you a worse driver on the track because you go slow through the corners and rely on huge power in the straights, but you don't have to do that. I would like to have a gutted brz as a track car, momentum cars are great fun, and you don't have to be going 150mph to be entertained. |
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05-26-2017, 10:53 AM | #451 |
Drives: 2016 1SS Mosaic Black MRC NPP A8 Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: ATX
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When I first started shopping for my daily driver/track car I wanted a GT350 SOOOOO bad! I couldn't find one and ended up with the 1SS after driving A LOT of other cars.
I'm super happy with my choice in the 1SS, but if I was looking to spend ZL1 coin I'd definitely have to shop that GT350R if I could find one. I agree there's no loser between the two! |
05-26-2017, 11:03 AM | #452 |
Track > 1/4 Mile
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People talk about 0.4 seconds over the course of 20-30 laps but you cannot take a single lap and then multiple by a number of laps, it doesn't take into account other variables like how the tires will wear. The ZL1 is heavier than the GT350R by a couple hundred pounds and is going to put more wear on the tires faster.
I was at COTA when Stevenson debuted the Camaro GT4, on fresh slicks it was walking away from most of the class but after about a dozen laps the performance started to fall off a bit and then it just got worse from there and they dropped four positions.
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05-26-2017, 11:08 AM | #453 |
Drives: Camaro Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 157
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But what if you bring the car to a track and race it, is it still not a "race car" or does that make the statement invalid somehow? There will be plenty of people who bring the car to a race track and actually race their car.
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05-26-2017, 11:10 AM | #454 | |
Drives: Camaro Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 157
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05-26-2017, 11:14 AM | #455 | |||
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
Posts: 6,035
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2. There was no S197 Mach 1 3. The Mach 1 in 03 was a nice split between the 260HP GT and the 390HP Cobra Also you keep bringing up the the baddest mustang, can only do 12.2 in the 1/4 and is underpowered not special and overpriced. Just want to know what was your opinion on the 75K Z/28 that "only" had 505HP out of a 7.0L and "only" did the 1/4 in 12.3 seconds? Was that car "special"? Quote:
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05-26-2017, 11:16 AM | #456 | |
Track > 1/4 Mile
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05-26-2017, 11:28 AM | #457 | |
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I really wonder if track temps were much hotter and the GYs started losing grip compared to the Cup 2s. It is something GM is aware of obviously because they specifically state the ZL1 1LE tires "are designed to warm up faster to help maintain more consistent grip and speed, lap after lap". http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/...camaroZL1.html Sounds like to me the ZL1 GYs are probably designed for better "on road" performance, which could explain some of the time lost vs the earlier run this year. Either way, it ran what it did this day and that's what people should expect under similar conditions. I really think a lot of people see the HP/TQ numbers and assume a beat down, but it is never that simple on the track. 200+lbs is a lot of weight difference for the track.
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05-26-2017, 11:28 AM | #458 | |
Drives: Raptor Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 126
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Quote:
To put a finer point on it, .4 sec per lap by a professional is somewhat irrelevant to armatures during a track day, as long as the car is a capable track car (clearly both of these cars are), and the driver is having fun. It's been a while since I have been on the track (life and kids intervened, but i'll be back hopefully this fall), but the instructors (really good drivers) in low powered light cars (usually with good rubber) could pick off just about anyone they wanted to in a corner. Point is, beyond bench racing, once the average owner is behind the wheel .4 seconds means very little. Again, i'm happy to be on the positive side of that .4, because I too am a bit of a child |
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05-26-2017, 11:42 AM | #459 | |
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
Posts: 6,035
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Corvette got LS3, Camaro got LS3. Corvette got LT1, Camaro got LT1, CTS-V gets LSA, Camaro gets LSA, Corvette no longer uses LS7, Camaro gets LS7, Z06 got LT4, CTS V got LT4, Camaro ZL1 Gets LT4, Halo Corvette gets LS9 Camaro never go it Past history suggests Camaro will only share what is there, but if its for the Halo corvette, it wont get shared. Also if the new LT whatever is F/I that doesn't fit the narrative for a new Z/28 |
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05-26-2017, 11:49 AM | #460 |
Drives: 20 1LE 2SS M6 Rally Green Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Franklin WI
Posts: 6,632
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Chevy had moved on to the Z/28 with the LS7 by that point (2014). That was the story for gen5's swan song so no interest in improving the ZL1. The mid cycle refresh will come for 2019 and 2020 so its hard to believe there won't be another performance variant to close out gen6. There is a new engine in the ZR1 so that makes the most sense
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05-26-2017, 11:49 AM | #461 |
Drives: Camaro Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 157
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Oh absolutely there will be variables and nothing is a constant that's for sure.
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05-26-2017, 12:02 PM | #462 | |
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Also it should be noted the LS9 never appeared in a Vette either. The LSA was developed from groundwork on the LS9 (Yes I know there are major differences but they both represented the first S/C GM engines of the modern era). So maybe a 2019 Camaro won't get the same engine in the new ZR1, but it may get another derivative like the LSA. That definitely fits past history at least. Could end up being a replacement for the LT4 altogether. But I am more interested in rumors of a DOHC NA motor making north of 500hp for the C8. Which is much easier to see trickling down to the Camaro at some point. Also the LS9 is the only example a halo Vette engine not making it to a Camaro. Even the original LT4 made it's way into a few anniversary Camaros in '97, but again...as the Vette switched to a new engine the LS1.
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