[Junction65]

The fleecing continues...

Ford Mustang Mach-E Price Up $3000 to $8100 as Order Banks Reopen

[Junction65]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

Imagine paying $47k-70k for an electric old woman's car. LOL.

It gets better! This sounds like a lot of potential fun while you make 84 "low" monthly payments and plan trips around fast charger locations.

Mustang Mach-E Battery Charges Slowly, Overheats Quickly

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

Imagine paying $47k-70k for an electric old woman's car. LOL.

Sadly, it doesn’t matter. The demand for EVs continues to skyrocket. Enthusiasts like us represent a very small portion of the market. The typical person drives less than 50 miles per day so range is not really an issue and if you can afford $50-70k for a new car then you probably own a home with where you can charge in the garage. Most of these buyers want to remove exhaust and engine noise, not enhance it like we do. They like that there is very little maintenance, while we like to work on our cars. Even the slowest EV feels really quick around town and the advanced tech with OTA software updates keeps the car feeling current. The typical buyer doesn’t even enjoy driving, they would prefer tech that automates the process as much as possible.

The auto industry has been long overdue for innovation disruption and whether you like them or not you have to give credit to Tesla for changing the game. We had the Internet revolution and now we are entering the ICE to EV revolution.

[Junction65]

My garage my choice.

[CHASLT1]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

Imagine paying $47k-70k for an electric old woman's car. LOL.

Too big and ugly. Now a small regcab pickup i would be all for it in a ev version with 400hp.

[cellsafemode]

Lets pretend that a 2 door coupe is even something GM would continue to build outside of the corvette.

if they would create a 2 door actual camaro looking camaro, I'd be down.
If they would create a conversion kit using a crate ev motor and such, I might even be down for that if there were no alternatives.

and if they can sell chevy bolt's for significantly under 40k (before any kind of tax credit) with it's 250+ mile range, then it shouldn't be a problem to do something similar for the camaro in the same price range as a starting trim. And that's fine for me, i rarely (avg less than once per year) drive more than 250 miles in a single day, so charging is not a concern.

I would be totally down for that.

but as a 4 door sedan, that's not a camaro. If there are no pony car-esque ev's on the market anymore because this whole segment has died entirely, then i'll probably just get whatever's practical and best bang for the buck. Which will likely not be GM given their design that either leans big and heavy or small and under powered and low quality interior trim.

either way, the next car purchase I make will be ev. I'm over paying for gas and with an ev i'll be producing my own 'fuel'. But that's still probably a good 5 years away barring any sudden failures. Who knows what the market will be like in 5 years.

[Palutz]

That 4 door “mustang” SUV is exactly what happens when men don’t speak up in life anymore. I’ll stand corrected if Ford does bring a sports coupe mustang EV but the mustang name should have never been used on the SUV.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Palutz

That 4 door “mustang” SUV is exactly what happens when men don’t speak up in life anymore. I’ll stand corrected if Ford does bring a sports coupe mustang EV but the mustang name should have never been used on the SUV.

the problem is, that opinion is obviously a minority one, which should be no surprise since our interest in cars is a minority one. That wannabe mustang sells very nearly as many of itself as ford sells of the 'proper' mustang these days.

the public seems to really not care about buying coupes, and if they can shine up their forgettable suv with a name that is iconic, they'll buy. Companies would be pretty stupid to not do it. Even though it's wrong. Manufacturers aren't controlled by enthusiasts, they're controlled by investors.

[90503]

There is more room for profit in SUV EVs for the manufacturers as the 7.5K tax credit limit is 80K for an SUV, and 55K for sedans. The subsidy tax credit just made anything "affordable" to be just under 80K and 55K. Look for MSRPs to rise accordingly....

(You didn't think the tax credit would be for you, did you?)...lol...The Subsidy will end up being the controlling factor in the MSRP as makers will work it into their MSRP as pure profit. You will simply be the conduit to put the tax-credit in their pocket, not yours.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by 90503

There is more room for profit in SUV EVs for the manufacturers as the 7.5K tax credit limit is 80K for an SUV, and 55K for sedans. The subsidy tax credit just made anything "affordable" to be just under 80K and 55K. Look for MSRPs to rise accordingly....

(You didn't think the tax credit would be for you, did you?)...lol...The Subsidy will end up being the controlling factor in the MSRP as makers will work it into their MSRP as pure profit. You will simply be the conduit to put the tax-credit in their pocket, not yours.

car manufacturers also have to compete with buyers opting instead to buy used or not at all and just take uber and taxi's. And they are fighting for money their consumers have less and less of because everything else is expensive.

So the msrp has pressure and there is competition from that avenue. It's not just an oligopoly of sorts where the price can be raised simply because there's potentially more money on the table.

i dont see msrp raising due to a tax credit existing. That wouldn't explain the rising average car price for non-ev vehicles which increases at times faster than inflation as well. Instead what we are seeing is ever increasing non-optional options being tacked on to vehicle purchase to drive up base line costs and the lack of stocking any base trim versions of vehicles to pad dealership profits as well. And that is happening to all vehicles regardless of power source.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

the problem is, that opinion is obviously a minority one, which should be no surprise since our interest in cars is a minority one. That wannabe mustang sells very nearly as many of itself as ford sells of the 'proper' mustang these days.

the public seems to really not care about buying coupes, and if they can shine up their forgettable suv with a name that is iconic, they'll buy. Companies would be pretty stupid to not do it. Even though it's wrong. Manufacturers aren't controlled by enthusiasts, they're controlled by investors.

Yup, unfortunately for us, this is the truth.

The issue isn't so much that voices aren't standing up, its that the voices that are standing up are not in any position to make a change in the direction things are moving. We aren't the controller of the deck of cards, we are the spades, hearts, diamonds and clubs... ...only meant to be controlled regardless of our true disposition of the matter.

[90503]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

car manufacturers also have to compete with buyers opting instead to buy used or not at all and just take uber and taxi's. And they are fighting for money their consumers have less and less of because everything else is expensive.

So the msrp has pressure and there is competition from that avenue. It's not just an oligopoly of sorts where the price can be raised simply because there's potentially more money on the table.

i dont see msrp raising due to a tax credit existing. That wouldn't explain the rising average car price for non-ev vehicles which increases at times faster than inflation as well. Instead what we are seeing is ever increasing non-optional options being tacked on to vehicle purchase to drive up base line costs and the lack of stocking any base trim versions of vehicles to pad dealership profits as well. And that is happening to all vehicles regardless of power source.

Just add the tax credit to the laundry list of factors that keep the prices rising.

We hear a lot of all the benefits of EVs saving the consumer money on maintenance items...no exhaust system, no cooling system, fewer overall parts and increased ease of assembly, etc. etc..Sounds great for the manufacturers saving all the related expenses.

Doesn't seem to have been passed down to the consumer at all, though. Probably never will be. EV's will have a monopoly soon enough. With government mandates, intervention and regulations any reasons to save the consumer any money by "competing" (lol) are getting fewer and fewer.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by 90503

Just add the tax credit to the laundry list of factors that keep the prices rising.

We hear a lot of all the benefits of EVs saving the consumer money on maintenance items...no exhaust system, no cooling system, fewer overall parts and increased ease of assembly, etc. etc..Sounds great for the manufactures saving all the related expenses.

Doesn't seem to have been passed down to the consumer at all, though. Probably never will be. EV's will have a monopoly soon enough. With government intervention and regulations any reasons to save the consumer any money are getting fewer and fewer.

the credit wont exist when ev's are close to all you can buy. so the credit wont impact msrp then, so lets get that out of the way. And in that hypothetical future, car manufacturers still want to make money and exist, so they'll have to sell cars at a price people can buy.

As for the current cost of ev vehicles, they have been going down with the decrease in cost of battery packs. However, the battery packs have been growing to increase range. Because in the US, we dont buy vehicles based on a rational judgement of what is practical. It's always more and extreme.

Right now in the US, there are 7 models of EV available below 40k msrp.
That's an increase in availability in this price range, not a decrease compared to previous years. If the tax credit was putting upward pressure on the MSRP, this would not be what we see, as the tax credit has been around for many years.

So what we actually see in reality is the opposite of what you are suggesting is an effect of the tax credit. And we have no reason to forecast that this trend will not continue for at least the near future as ICE is phased out.

[90503]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

the credit wont exist when ev's are close to all you can buy. so the credit wont impact msrp then, so lets get that out of the way. And in that hypothetical future, car manufacturers still want to make money and exist, so they'll have to sell cars at a price people can buy.

As for the current cost of ev vehicles, they have been going down with the decrease in cost of battery packs. However, the battery packs have been growing to increase range. Because in the US, we dont buy vehicles based on a rational judgement of what is practical. It's always more and extreme.

Right now in the US, there are 7 models of EV available below 40k msrp.
That's an increase in availability in this price range, not a decrease compared to previous years. If the tax credit was putting upward pressure on the MSRP, this would not be what we see, as the tax credit has been around for many years.

So what we actually see in reality is the opposite of what you are suggesting is an effect of the tax credit. And we have no reason to forecast that this trend will not continue for at least the near future as ICE is phased out.

Yes the tax credit has been around. Different criteria, but still there. GM used theirs up on the Bolt and Volt (discontinued). Amazingly the price of the Bolt went down substantially after there was no more tax credit available.