08-07-2021, 02:55 PM | #15 | |
SoCal Camaro5 Race Team
Drives: 2021 Shadow Grey Camaro 2SS 1LE Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SO CAL
Posts: 14,298
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But you win. Not here to argue on his thread about what sway bar to get |
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08-07-2021, 10:59 PM | #16 |
I apologize for answering in an overly basic and callous opinion. I assumed much.
I believe sway bar link material is not limited, according to stock class, so I would consider that as part of the equation on the bar (maximizes it’s effectiveness). Also on a side note on track, in stock class, you can go +7 mm per side? Wheels are $$$ but standard 5mm hub centric spacers will widen that track on the cheap. I did that on all 4 corners to maximize track within the rules and its still has enough thread engagement. Last edited by weemus; 08-07-2021 at 11:12 PM. |
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08-07-2021, 11:40 PM | #17 |
https://racer.com/2017/07/18/autocro...rets-swaybars/
Front bar which when limited is always what should be done first (maximize front grip) https://racer.com/2017/07/19/autocro...waybar-tuning/ Think of the bar as a system, i.e. mounts and adjustable (spherical if you can) links should be used to maximize bar effectiveness. |
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08-08-2021, 07:50 AM | #18 | |
corner barstool sitter
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012
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Quote:
Improvements in mechanical grip and increased amounts of roll are both downstream consequences of suspension "softness". Neither of them is an input. Norm
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'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
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08-08-2021, 08:15 AM | #19 |
Drives: Chevrolet SS 1LE Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: St. Charles, MO
Posts: 1,452
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Going softer on one end of the car with a smaller swaybar does increase that end's grip, but it's at the expense of decreased grip at the other end. So to be clear, it isn't going to increase the overall grip of the car unless the car is actually too stiff in roll. I can't think of a production car that's ever come with too much roll stiffness such that it benefitted from an overall reduction in roll resistance. In general, the more a production car rolls, the more overall grip it will give up in cornering because the suspension doesn't keep the tires at optimal alignment to the pavement.
RE those articles quoting Guy Ankeny, it is often true that a rwd car in Street class benefits from a bigger front bar rather than a bigger rear bar. But not always. It depends on how the car handles with the stock bars as well as how much power it has and how well it puts that power down: if it's neutral or oversteering and has trouble putting power down then it may indeed benefit from a bigger front bar so it can put power down better. This is generally the case for the 1LE in B Street, for example. Having never driven a stock 6th-gen SS, I don't know how it handles, so I didn't attempt to tell the OP whether his plan to increase rear roll stiffness is the correct one. The gobbledeegook about swaybars taking away independence from the suspension has been disproven repeatedly over the years. Wheel rate is wheel rate: the tire doesn't know if the displacement-based rate and consequent load it's seeing is from a swaybar or a spring. It just sees the load change as the suspension moves. So in roll or articulation it doesn't matter if half the wheel rate is provided by the swaybar or if it's all provided by the spring - the exact same forces and movement will occur. As an aside, way before I bought my C4 Corvette, I codrove it with the previous owner at a regional autocross. He had Ankeny-spec'd custom-valved Bilsteins on it for that event. They were so stiff that the suspension was effectively locked half the time and the car was practically undrivable. Those things came right back off the car because they were awful. FWIW.
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Matt Miller
2020 SS 1LE |
09-13-2021, 03:42 PM | #20 |
Drives: 2017 Chevy Camaro 1SS Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 10
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Shoutout to kropscamaro16 for being the first to answer the question.
. So, after reading Msquared's reply I decided that I wanted to go with the Hotchkiss bar, but literally everywhere I checked they would have to order it and wouldn't be able to get it to me until November. I didn't want to wait until next season for the change so, I went to a local GM parts distributor and got myself a FE4 rear bar. Which was harder than you'd think because apparently they don't know what a sway bar is because GM calls them "stabilizer bars". I've done three autocrosses since installing the bar and it's much better. It does have a little more oversteer than I'd like now, but it is controllable. |
09-14-2021, 06:48 AM | #21 | ||
corner barstool sitter
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012
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"Sway bars" as used in casual enthusiast conversation is probably best considered a nickname. "Sway" has more to do with what a trailer can cause your car to do in a side-to-side, tail-wagging-the-dog manner than with roll. Quote:
Norm
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'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
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09-19-2021, 10:58 AM | #22 | |
Drives: 2017 SS 1LE, 2016 1SS (previous) Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Metro-Detroit
Posts: 1,863
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>Why: On an otherwise stock suspension for an SS or SS 1LE, the stiffer rates of the Hotchkiss can be a bit much, offering very little adjustment (excessive understeer), in all actuality. The BMR allows you to roughly start at stock (well, "stock" SS 1LE) and go a bit stiffer in two steps useable to different tracks/courses/weather conditions. The FE4 (SS 1LE/ZL1) front sway bar is one step up from stock on an SS and is a very cost-effective and noticeable upgrade, roughly starting off at the least stiffest point of the BMR. Overall, the front spring/sway bar setup isn't too terrible on the SS 1LE, but is a bit lacking on the SS. If you want some more oversteer, wanting the rear end to rotate more, go with the Hotchkiss rear bar. >Why: The Hotchkiss rear bar is the only bar out there that doesn't have crazy stiff rates. The bar starts off about the same rate as the FE4 rear bar (SS 1LE/ZL1) and has two steps stiffer. The other benefit to this bar is that the bushings are non-bonded and free-up the rear suspension movement. Honestly, you really don't need to adjust the rear rates on these Camaros too much from stock, either SS or SS 1LE, at all. I hate general advice from most autocrossers because it is usually so overly generic and stuck in old "rules of thumb" that don't necessarily apply as well with many newer cars. You really should be judging a specific car and then, further, for the specific driver. Some people like to drive more like kart drivers, with more of a touch of oversteer, and some prefer a slight touch of understeer, with more of a circuit-sports car mentality. Last edited by Mountain; 09-19-2021 at 11:09 AM. |
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12-11-2021, 11:27 PM | #23 | ||
Drives: 2017 Chevy Camaro 1SS Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 10
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So, I made a reply to this thread months ago, but for some reason it wasn't displaying for me. So I made this post, only to later find out that the first post did work, but I'm keeping this one anyways because it goes into a bit more detail. Anyways, here it goes.
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Last edited by democidist; 12-18-2021 at 02:27 PM. Reason: Stupid mistake |
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12-12-2021, 01:11 PM | #24 | |
Drives: Chevrolet SS 1LE Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: St. Charles, MO
Posts: 1,452
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Matt Miller
2020 SS 1LE |
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12-12-2021, 08:18 PM | #25 | |
Drives: Chevrolet SS 1LE Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: St. Charles, MO
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Quote:
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Matt Miller
2020 SS 1LE |
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08-04-2023, 07:29 PM | #26 |
Drives: '17 2SS H50 Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Louisa, Ky
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I have aFe Control adjustable sway bars and aFe Control lowering springs. I am currently using the stock end links. I'm on the stiffest setting on the road and middle setting front. 2SS is ON rails right now. MRR 017 wheels with Michelin PS4S in 1LE configuration.
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