[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by TheShooter

This is the problem with people like you. Everything threatens you, so all you can do is lash out. So if you want to take a beating, here goes...

We drove two ZL1's and here are the negatives:

1) Rear seats are terrible and storage is poor. By comparison our Hellcat is a comfortable 4 door cruiser that can be driven anywhere.
2) Out on the highway it's faster than the ZL1.
3) On the track it's faster than the ZL1. That's why you have a sad thread called "where are the 10 second runs.
4) Not only can a well driven Cat take you on a drag strip, but it can run all the way to about 205 MPH.
6) As pleasing as the ZL1 power is, not only is the Hellcat faster, it FEELS more visceral when you push the car. It's an open road beast.
7) I've been to maybe 12 or 13 charity car shows in NY and in LA. Our Hellcat has collected 5 trophies for modern muscle. Not Camaro wins because they're hugely common and look alike. Everyone is shocked to see the comparatively rare Charger Hellcat.
8) Visibility is poor in the ZL1. I can live with it, but it's still poor.

Gee wiz, Gilligan, it sounds like I don't like the ZL1! Nope, I love it. It sucks in some ways and it's brilliant in others. It gives up my Hellcat's practicality and room to be a great handling well rounded sports car.

That's why I may keep it. Because the Zl1 can't replace it. Just like neither can replace an Evo X or a STI or Miata.

You are just a fanboy. Worst thing for a forum like this. I see some real car enthusiasts here, but you're not one of them. What kind of guy can't handle a thread talking about a totally different car with a LOT more muscle?

You.


R.

I have to object.

1 - You can't compare a 2 door Camaro to a 4 door Charger when it comes to roominess. That really isn't a fair comparison at all. If someone needs seating then they'll buy the Charger. If seating is a non-issue then the person would buy a ZL1. I have no seating issues. I carry maybe 1 passenger in my car every once in a great while. So for me and plenty of people like myself, the ZL1 is a better choice. Oh and the Camaro IS comfortable BTW.

2 - It has been proven time and again even on the Hellcat forums that when matched with the same trans (A8 vs A10 or M6 vs M6) they both are very similar in performance. the HC might pull away at higher speeds, like over 120, but how often are you roll racing past 120?

3 - Stock to stock with stock tires you know full well that the ZL1 is faster. Not many people are getting into the 10s or even low 11s on the stock tires. At the track every HC there that is low 11s or faster are all on DRs. The ZL1 will do low 11s on stock tires. Now once mods are thrown in the mix, the HC will win mod for mod...I think. If the ZL1 can do low 11s stock then what do you think it can run with DRs? Either way there is enough evidence to say the HC might have the advantage but it isn't a complete wipe out.

4 - How often will a person be hitting 205? And lets face facts, one HC night have done it but there are enough variables to say that not every HC will do that with every driver. The ZL1 BTW has done a 198. I would say that is close enough that certain variables could make for a ZL1 that could go faster than a HC.

5 (you skipped 5 so this is in answer to 6) - Again, bot cars are pretty much equal when matched with the same trans. Any win on either car would be attributable to the driver or whichever person gets the jump first.

6 - Hellcats are not scarce at car shows. Any given show in my area sees a handful or more HCs. 5th Gen ZL1s have a good presence. And I haven't been to one in a few months, but at the last one there was only 1 6th Gen ZL1. They were still new so that is the reason. But you can hardly call a HC "rare" anywhere these days.

7 - Visibility is a non-issue (for me at least) with the indicators that are present on these cars. I can whip my car on the GSP in the middle of the night in full traffic and not miss a beat. You would be surprised.

The ZL1 is nothing short of fantastic. Just like the HC is. I said this before and I'll say it again, once you get your hands on one you'll see how amazing it is.

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by TheShooter

This is the problem with people like you. Everything threatens you, so all you can do is lash out. So if you want to take a beating, here goes...

We drove two ZL1's and here are the negatives:

1) Rear seats are terrible and storage is poor. By comparison our Hellcat is a comfortable 4 door cruiser that can be driven anywhere.
2) Out on the highway it's faster than the ZL1.
3) On the track it's faster than the ZL1. That's why you have a sad thread called "where are the 10 second runs.
4) Not only can a well driven Cat take you on a drag strip, but it can run all the way to about 205 MPH.
6) As pleasing as the ZL1 power is, not only is the Hellcat faster, it FEELS more visceral when you push the car. It's an open road beast.
7) I've been to maybe 12 or 13 charity car shows in NY and in LA. Our Hellcat has collected 5 trophies for modern muscle. Not Camaro wins because they're hugely common and look alike. Everyone is shocked to see the comparatively rare Charger Hellcat.
8) Visibility is poor in the ZL1. I can live with it, but it's still poor.

Gee wiz, Gilligan, it sounds like I don't like the ZL1! Nope, I love it. It sucks in some ways and it's brilliant in others. It gives up my Hellcat's practicality and room to be a great handling well rounded sports car.

That's why I may keep it. Because the Zl1 can't replace it. Just like neither can replace an Evo X or a STI or Miata.

You are just a fanboy. Worst thing for a forum like this. I see some real car enthusiasts here, but you're not one of them. What kind of guy can't handle a thread talking about a totally different car with a LOT more muscle?

You.


R.

Thank you for your opinion, I don't think it will enter my mind when I make my next purchase. Fanboy sounds like something from High School. I was privileged to spend three years in Germany as guests of the US government. We brought a Acura Legend Coupe over. It would hit 150 and was fun to drive. I bought a used BMW 7 series from a dealer. It had been his wives car for ten years. It had racing wheels and racing run flat tires. I would drive that around at 100 mph with wife and kid in the car. By myself at about 140 mph it started to really start hugging the road, you could feel how it was designed that way. It gives you a sense of security passing cars at 150 mph. Then bought a couple of Volvo's. The ZL1 is my first Chevrolet, I would think a fanboy would only ever buy 1 brand? But when I drive my ZL1 I get that same sensation of engineering and security I felt in the B M W. You can call me names and whatever but the facts speak for themselves. It might be a milestone for the Challenger when Chevrolet releases the 50th anniversary edition of the ZL1 in 2019 it will mark the 10 year anniversary of the chassis of the Challenger.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by TheShooter

You are just a fanboy. Worst thing for a forum like this.

Actually, it's a core part of a forum "like this"...because lest you forget, "Camaro" is in the URL. Please consider that before this turns into a "You only like Camaros, you're stupid" conversation. I will end that, quickly.

[396ssrat]

Meanwhile Chrysler IS being slow about getting these cars to their customers. I'm thinking that like the ZL1, their customers will be happy once they get them. If they deliver them to the east coast in December they won't have to worry about people not running in the 9's right out of the gate. Lol
On the other hand, here in the west, my buddy who is waiting for his car tp ship already has multiple sets of tires in stock, both drag radials and skinnies. He will wring the thing out for all it's worth. I'm curious to see how far off the mark the car is.

[nicktechla]

The Charger HellCat is a sweet 4 door. I'd definitely drive one if I had a family.

[TheShooter]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I have to object.

1 - You can't compare a 2 door Camaro to a 4 door Charger when it comes to roominess. That really isn't a fair comparison at all. If someone needs seating then they'll buy the Charger. If seating is a non-issue then the person would buy a ZL1. I have no seating issues. I carry maybe 1 passenger in my car every once in a great while. So for me and plenty of people like myself, the ZL1 is a better choice. Oh and the Camaro IS comfortable BTW.

I'm NOT comparing them really. I'm just pointing out how foolish a debate like this is.

2 - It has been proven time and again even on the Hellcat forums that when matched with the same trans (A8 vs A10 or M6 vs M6) they both are very similar in performance. the HC might pull away at higher speeds, like over 120, but how often are you roll racing past 120?

The Hellcat pulls on a ZL1, especially as speeds climb. So what? The Zl1 was NOT built to battle a Hellcat in a straight line.

3 - Stock to stock with stock tires you know full well that the ZL1 is faster. Not many people are getting into the 10s or even low 11s on the stock tires. At the track every HC there that is low 11s or faster are all on DRs. The ZL1 will do low 11s on stock tires. Now once mods are thrown in the mix, the HC will win mod for mod...I think. If the ZL1 can do low 11s stock then what do you think it can run with DRs? Either way there is enough evidence to say the HC might have the advantage but it isn't a complete wipe out.

The Hellcat tires were chosen to allow for the crazy top speeds and smoking burnouts. Put DR's on both and the Hellcat does 10.85's all day long. There must be a hundred videos of this on youtube. I don't see the ZL1 doing it. Again, I don't care. The ZL1 is good at other things.

4 - How often will a person be hitting 205? And lets face facts, one HC night have done it but there are enough variables to say that not every HC will do that with every driver. The ZL1 BTW has done a 198. I would say that is close enough that certain variables could make for a ZL1 that could go faster than a HC.

I agree. I was just smacking your resident troll around.

5 (you skipped 5 so this is in answer to 6) - Again, bot cars are pretty much equal when matched with the same trans. Any win on either car would be attributable to the driver or whichever person gets the jump first.

6 - Hellcats are not scarce at car shows. Any given show in my area sees a handful or more HCs. 5th Gen ZL1s have a good presence. And I haven't been to one in a few months, but at the last one there was only 1 6th Gen ZL1. They were still new so that is the reason. But you can hardly call a HC "rare" anywhere these days.

Charger Hellcats are indeed scarce. Roughly ONE is built for every ten challengers. This is just math. The production numbers are still pretty low. Most shows I go to have Challenger Hellcats.

7 - Visibility is a non-issue (for me at least) with the indicators that are present on these cars. I can whip my car on the GSP in the middle of the night in full traffic and not miss a beat. You would be surprised.

I've driven the ZL1. Visibility is workable, but let's be honest. It's far from good.

The ZL1 is nothing short of fantastic. Just like the HC is. I said this before and I'll say it again, once you get your hands on one you'll see how amazing it is.

I've had the ZL1 on Angeles Crest chasing my friends Evo X (with 550 Hp). It is an amazing car and I'm NOT bashing it. I intend to buy one.


R.

[nicktechla]

Originally Posted by TheShooter

I've had the ZL1 on Angeles Crest chasing my friends Evo X (with 550 Hp). It is an amazing car and I'm NOT bashing it. I intend to buy one.


R.

it does quite well on Angeles Crest

[TheShooter]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Actually, it's a core part of a forum "like this"...because lest you forget, "Camaro" is in the URL. Please consider that before this turns into a "You only like Camaros, you're stupid" conversation. I will end that, quickly.

Odd, because I'm a member of several car forums and there's a general respect in most of them for the various cars and brands.

Without the Hellcat and ZL1's and Vipers and GT500's we have FAR less excitement going on.

Doesn't anyone understand that at all? Car/brand bashing is what 15 year olds do. It shouldn't be defended or supported.

Bye.


R.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by TheShooter

Odd, because I'm a member of several car forums and there's a general respect in most of them for the various cars and brands.

Without the Hellcat and ZL1's and Vipers and GT500's we have FAR less excitement going on.

Doesn't anyone understand that at all? Car/brand bashing is what 15 year olds do. It shouldn't be defended or supported.

Bye.


R.

Everyone understands, which is why this thread even exists on this forum. There is general respect, which again, is why this thread exists.

However, the Camaro is something 95% of us on this forum have in common with one another. Hence the name. As is expected: there is also enthusiasm, pride, and bias towards Camaro which is encouraged, and even celebrated on this forum. We bash them, they bash us...and everyone goes and has a beer after. It is a balanced relationship; in which we play the Camaro end of the scales. It has always been this way...it will always be this way. That's a large part of what makes the excitement you're referring to.

A great example was two years ago at the Factory Fest...we partnered with a Mustang HPDE club to run at Gingerman Raceway the day before the event in Lansing, MI. They were inviting, friendly, great car-loving people! We talked cars, driving lines, shared lunch and compliments. But damn I loved the feeling of passing every Mustang I could during a session.

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by TheShooter

Odd, because I'm a member of several car forums and there's a general respect in most of them for the various cars and brands.

Without the Hellcat and ZL1's and Vipers and GT500's we have FAR less excitement going on.

Doesn't anyone understand that at all? Car/brand bashing is what 15 year olds do. It shouldn't be defended or supported.

Bye.


R.

Did I say anything bad about Ford, no in fact I praised them a couple times and would consider owning one. Most of the Mustang owners I have talked to on here don't act like Challenger owners.

You are upset because you have come to a Camaro site and you are surprised everyone doesn't love the Challenger the way you do.

Almost everything I have said I have backed up with facts or data. I don't count Speedy's car shop as a legitimate source for data.

If you cannot address specific issues and just go on calling names, maybe you should look in the mirror. Did I ever call you a name? You are letting your emotions get the best of you.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Everyone understands, which is why this thread even exists on this forum. There is general respect, which again, is why this thread exists.

However, the Camaro is something 95% of us on this forum have in common with one another. Hence the name. As is expected: there is also enthusiasm, pride, and bias towards Camaro which is encouraged, and even celebrated on this forum. We bash them, they bash us...and everyone goes and has a beer after. It is a balanced relationship; in which we play the Camaro end of the scales. It has always been this way...it will always be this way. That's a large part of what makes the excitement you're referring to.

A great example was two years ago at the Factory Fest...we partnered with a Mustang HPDE club to run at Gingerman Raceway the day before the event in Lansing, MI. They were inviting, friendly, great car-loving people! We talked cars, driving lines, shared lunch and compliments. But damn I loved the feeling of passing every Mustang I could during a session.

very well put. I do believe, and have been saying, that this tnread should be in the "other cars" section. It would show respect for the ZL1 owners on here.

[TheShooter]

I guess I'm not on board with this thinking.

I don't bash ZL1s, Hellcats, Mustangs or brands. I don't call brands garbage. I respect the other owners/drivers have different taste and criteria.

How many 700+ HP cars are as reliable as the Hellcat? Zero.

And I'm not upset or threatened when a Dodge Demon "beats" a ZL1 or Hellcat since it was designed for a specific envelope of usage. Are ZL1 owners upset that a Cessna Citation X can fly?


R.

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by TheShooter

I guess I'm not on board with this thinking.

I don't bash ZL1s, Hellcats, Mustangs or brands. I don't call brands garbage. I respect the other owners/drivers have different taste and criteria.

How many 700+ HP cars are as reliable as the Hellcat? Zero.

And I'm not upset or threatened when a Dodge Demon "beats" a ZL1 or Hellcat since it was designed for a specific envelope of usage. Are ZL1 owners upset that a Cessna Citation X can fly?


R.

I heard the ZL1 is the slowest and fastest car that starts with ZL1.

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[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by TheShooter

I guess I'm not on board with this thinking.

I don't bash ZL1s, Hellcats, Mustangs or brands. I don't call brands garbage. I respect the other owners/drivers have different taste and criteria.

How many 700+ HP cars are as reliable as the Hellcat? Zero.

And I'm not upset or threatened when a Dodge Demon "beats" a ZL1 or Hellcat since it was designed for a specific envelope of usage. Are ZL1 owners upset that a Cessna Citation X can fly?


R.