Strange M6 High RPM Behaviour - Pause? 1st > 2nd

80sMetalDude · 07-21-2017, 12:27 PM

As some of you may know here I recently installed Whipple on my 2017 1LE.

Aside from being fast as !@#$ something strange is happening and I think it has to do with some Nanny intervention.

Disabled TC, with the Whipple it's one of the first things I do with my normal startup routine.

Launch and in high RPM range slam second and instead of like a chirp or chirps INSTEAD some damn nanny kicks in and the whole damn thing pauses for (what seems like an eternity) for like 1/2 sec and then engages... it is behaving like a nanny or TC is STILL trying to deal with tire slip even though it's supposed to be OFF.

WTH, anyone know of anything else I need to do? The tranny is rock solid otherwise I dont have any issues unless I hit it like that and should hear the tires squak entering 2nd.

Ryephile · 07-21-2017, 01:04 PM

Does it still have the pause if you No-lift-shift?

I know there's all sorts of torque management settings in the ECU and it's not as straightforward as just turning off the TC. Just for clarity, are you doing a full 5-second press-and-hold for "Full-Off"?

80sMetalDude · 07-21-2017, 01:07 PM

Thx. Nope just single tap to see TC off on the dash. That's new to me so 5 sec is a full mode, bamn gonna try that!

I haven't tried the no-lift-shift thing I know what it is but haven't messed with the concept yet.

HyperBlueX2 · 07-21-2017, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80sMetalDude

Thx. Nope just single tap to see TC off on the dash. That's new to me so 5 sec is a full mode, bamn gonna try that!

I haven't tried the no-lift-shift thing I know what it is but haven't messed with the concept yet.

Just make sure the Whipple tune didn't disable the no lift shift.......

Ryephile · 07-21-2017, 01:15 PM

NLS is where you keep the throttle to the floor while clutching and shifting. I use it at the racetrack and it's brilliant, just don't dawdle around.

Definitely try the Full Off, that's probably where your issue is.

80sMetalDude · 07-21-2017, 01:22 PM

80sMetalDude · 07-22-2017, 05:17 PM

Turned TC fully off seems about 10 sec press to get it to show the car swerving graphic in the RPM gauge... so I did another pull with a mechanic in car buddy of mine and didnt even tell him about the problem before I did the pull...

First thing he says... what happened there??? I'm like yep something is WRONG with the tranny I think or tune. Not sure.

Something IS wrong. TONS of HP flowing but it cannot smoothly enter 2nd gear at high RPM like TC is STILL getting involved. Tons of torque, EXCEPT between 1st/2nd... and ya KNOW its gonna spin the tires at high RPM popping 2nd... I'm convinced something is wrong with TC programming.

SC88 · 07-23-2017, 11:00 AM

It's been discussed on the HPT forums, some say it's normal but amplified when adding more power, some say it's in the clutch master line and others think its something in the ECM

https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showt...en-shifts-6spd

80sMetalDude · 07-23-2017, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC88

It's been discussed on the HPT forums, some say it's normal but amplified when adding more power, some say it's in the clutch master line and others think its something in the ECM

https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showt...en-shifts-6spd

Thanks a lot for posting that... looking at that thread that valve is actually in the interior of the car right under your feet ruining all the fun??? Wow.

Think I'm going to have to hit our local perf shop.

Anyone have any experience with Livernois Performance here SE MI???

travislambert · 07-23-2017, 12:10 PM

Did you check the neutral rev limiter?
It's under: Fuel -> Cutoff, DFCO ->Cutoff RPM vs. Gear -> Normal

The neutral value should not be lower than the max RPM for the engine.

80sMetalDude · 07-23-2017, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travislambert

Did you check the neutral rev limiter?
It's under: Fuel -> Cutoff, DFCO ->Cutoff RPM vs. Gear -> Normal

The neutral value should not be lower than the max RPM for the engine.

Sending PM.

So what I find interesting is reading that HPTuner link posted above we have a clutch restrictor valve.... hit Youtube there is ALL kinds of hits on Hellcat/Challenger/BMW Clutch "Delay Valve" delete videos....not a single GM reference. You would think there would be some.

Cdflyer · 07-23-2017, 07:42 PM

I can attest that the valve is not the issue....at least completely. I've replaced it. The Tick line for a 2015 Camaro works just fine, but it is tight to get through the floor pan. My ProCharger tune has a similar issue. What we're fighting is trying to get the computer to allow us to use all of our TQ right off the line. Similar to what you're experiencing, but in First gear launching with slicks. It feels like the computer is forcing us to slip the clutch instead of allowing us to just dump and run. JJ had Centerforce make her an adapter that replaced the valve with a straight tube, it's still having the same issues last I spoke with her. We haven't quite figured out what it is in our ECM's that's trying to keep us from breaking parts.

lopezangel886 · 07-24-2017, 08:21 AM

It has to do with the cars tourque management system. The car basically cuts the power so it doesn't break itself (drive shaft, clutch, etc..) my car did the same exact thing but when I got a tune on it they "minimized it" they cannot completely get rid of it because you need some drivetrain protection still. It is a night and day difference with it almost gone though I can tell you that much!

80sMetalDude · 07-24-2017, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lopezangel886

It has to do with the cars tourque management system. The car basically cuts the power so it doesn't break itself (drive shaft, clutch, etc..) my car did the same exact thing but when I got a tune on it they "minimized it" they cannot completely get rid of it because you need some drivetrain protection still. It is a night and day difference with it almost gone though I can tell you that much!

Thanks all for the insight.

Talking with Travislambert who posted an older thread on this subject and like you state it can be minimized in the tune.

Thinking the next step for me is to get a tune as I'm using the canned one Whipple sent me that I'm sure is very conservative in nature.

07-21-2017, 12:27 PM	#1
80sMetalDude Drives: . Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: . Posts: 508	Strange M6 High RPM Behaviour - Pause? 1st > 2nd As some of you may know here I recently installed Whipple on my 2017 1LE. Aside from being fast as !@#$ something strange is happening and I think it has to do with some Nanny intervention. Disabled TC, with the Whipple it's one of the first things I do with my normal startup routine. Launch and in high RPM range slam second and instead of like a chirp or chirps INSTEAD some damn nanny kicks in and the whole damn thing pauses for (what seems like an eternity) for like 1/2 sec and then engages... it is behaving like a nanny or TC is STILL trying to deal with tire slip even though it's supposed to be OFF. WTH, anyone know of anything else I need to do? The tranny is rock solid otherwise I dont have any issues unless I hit it like that and should hear the tires squak entering 2nd.

07-21-2017, 01:04 PM	#2
Ryephile Hot Dog Drives: '17 1SS 1LE Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Metro Detroit Posts: 1,937	Does it still have the pause if you No-lift-shift? I know there's all sorts of torque management settings in the ECU and it's not as straightforward as just turning off the TC. Just for clarity, are you doing a full 5-second press-and-hold for "Full-Off"? __________________ 2017 "M1SS1LE" in Hyper Blue w/PDR

07-21-2017, 01:15 PM	#5
Ryephile Hot Dog Drives: '17 1SS 1LE Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Metro Detroit Posts: 1,937	NLS is where you keep the throttle to the floor while clutching and shifting. I use it at the racetrack and it's brilliant, just don't dawdle around. Definitely try the Full Off, that's probably where your issue is. __________________ 2017 "M1SS1LE" in Hyper Blue w/PDR

07-23-2017, 11:00 AM	#8
SC88 Twin Turbo Drives: 2016 2SS Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Illinois Posts: 290	It's been discussed on the HPT forums, some say it's normal but amplified when adding more power, some say it's in the clutch master line and others think its something in the ECM https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showt...en-shifts-6spd __________________ Boost, Boost & More Boost Instagram = BoostedSS

07-23-2017, 07:42 PM	#12
Cdflyer Drives: 2016 1SS 6speed Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: IL Posts: 527	I can attest that the valve is not the issue....at least completely. I've replaced it. The Tick line for a 2015 Camaro works just fine, but it is tight to get through the floor pan. My ProCharger tune has a similar issue. What we're fighting is trying to get the computer to allow us to use all of our TQ right off the line. Similar to what you're experiencing, but in First gear launching with slicks. It feels like the computer is forcing us to slip the clutch instead of allowing us to just dump and run. JJ had Centerforce make her an adapter that replaced the valve with a straight tube, it's still having the same issues last I spoke with her. We haven't quite figured out what it is in our ECM's that's trying to keep us from breaking parts. __________________ 2016 1SS M6 P1SC Stg II 592rwhp/548rwtq (for now) GForce Outlaw axles & driveshaft, TSP 2” LT’s, turndowns, RTS S71 drag pack with radials.

07-21-2017, 01:07 PM	#3
80sMetalDude Drives: . Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: . Posts: 508	Thx. Nope just single tap to see TC off on the dash. That's new to me so 5 sec is a full mode, bamn gonna try that! I haven't tried the no-lift-shift thing I know what it is but haven't messed with the concept yet.

07-21-2017, 01:22 PM	#6
80sMetalDude Drives: . Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: . Posts: 508

07-22-2017, 05:17 PM	#7
80sMetalDude Drives: . Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: . Posts: 508	Turned TC fully off seems about 10 sec press to get it to show the car swerving graphic in the RPM gauge... so I did another pull with a mechanic in car buddy of mine and didnt even tell him about the problem before I did the pull... First thing he says... what happened there??? I'm like yep something is WRONG with the tranny I think or tune. Not sure. Something IS wrong. TONS of HP flowing but it cannot smoothly enter 2nd gear at high RPM like TC is STILL getting involved. Tons of torque, EXCEPT between 1st/2nd... and ya KNOW its gonna spin the tires at high RPM popping 2nd... I'm convinced something is wrong with TC programming.

07-23-2017, 12:10 PM	#10
travislambert Drives: '17 ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Fairmont, WV Posts: 1,567	Did you check the neutral rev limiter? It's under: Fuel -> Cutoff, DFCO ->Cutoff RPM vs. Gear -> Normal The neutral value should not be lower than the max RPM for the engine.

07-24-2017, 08:21 AM	#13
lopezangel886 Drives: 2016 v6 camaro rs Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Lancaster, ca Posts: 60	It has to do with the cars tourque management system. The car basically cuts the power so it doesn't break itself (drive shaft, clutch, etc..) my car did the same exact thing but when I got a tune on it they "minimized it" they cannot completely get rid of it because you need some drivetrain protection still. It is a night and day difference with it almost gone though I can tell you that much!

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