[Heavymetal454]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

how did we get to a Volt? thought we were talking about performance cars.

btw, i might buy a volt, but it is way outside of my current consideration for a performance car.

The more people buying the volt the less buying the ZL1. Reverse psychology? I must be first. Ha

[Ghost7997]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Also bear in mind when discussing weight....the Hellcat engine uses a behemoth twin-screw supercharger, and a thicker-webbed cast-iron block...That sucker is HEAVY.

Drop weight in the chassis and use that engine, it's going to handle even worse...

The thing needs the weight to survive. It wouldn't stay on the ground if it didn't have all that mass. The power to weight ratio would be completely off. It is super heavy and will have to stay that way. That fat cat will stay plump. So in conclusion, Garfield can run home will all that power that he can't use.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Ghost7997

The thing needs the weight to survive. It wouldn't stay on the ground if it didn't have all that mass. The power to weight ratio would be completely off. It is super heavy and will have to stay that way. That fat cat will stay plump. So in conclusion, Garfield can run home will all that power that he can't use.

@ Garfield

[macwest]

If you are into handling issue with hellcat is not weight 5th gen zl1 is close. Issue is in weight distribution 57/43 . If you like drifting the challengers are great. Back end slides out easily and easy to maintain. however if you are use to a sports car it can surprise you. 5th gen ZL1 is 51/49 which makes great for handling.

However hellcat never was designed as a road course car. It is a street brute for everyone that wants the old muscle car high horsepower feel. For that it is great.

[GoneBoy]

Outside of maybe top end acceleration, the new zl1 will best the hc in every performance metric.

But say what you will about the hc's skinny tires lacking grip or it's slovenly weight or it's inability to turn, there's no denying that dodge marketed the crap out of this car to the point where the general public thinks its the most badass muscle car out there. Give it an absolutely absurd amount of power, check. In a day an age where every vehicle is labeled by some combination of numbers or letters, you badge it with the fear-invoking 'Hellcat', check check.

And from a marketing standpoint, this may be the most important one; you unapologetically envelope the masses via commercials and showcase other trim levels in movies (nightcrawler, focus, furious 7) to the point where they can't forget this bloody car exists, check check checkmate. This then transcends into celebrities buying their own, which ends up being free marketing for Dodge. The whole 'Oooh, Ben Afleck has one. He seems to be a cool guy. I wanna be cool like Ben'. Then you have Dwight Howard, etc, etc. And if you can't afford a hc like Ben, get a less pricey model and you can still be half as cool as Ben...a sale that I'm sure Dodge is perfectly okay with.

We had transformers almost a decade ago. Maybe they're out there, but I haven't seen a single commercial for a zl1 or gt500...ever. So let's give credit where credit is due to Dodge and their marketing team. Zl1 all day for me, chief. But I respect what the other side has accomplished both from a business standpoint and their ability to build a cargo ship on wheels that can comfortably seat 4 people, and still outrun more expensive and lighter vehicles in a straight line.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by GoneBoy

Outside of maybe top end acceleration, the new zl1 will best the hc in every performance metric.

But say what you will about the hc's skinny tires lacking grip or it's slovenly weight or it's inability to turn, there's no denying that dodge marketed the crap out of this car to the point where the general public thinks its the most badass muscle car out there. Give it an absolutely absurd amount of power, check. In a day an age where every vehicle is labeled by some combination of numbers or letters, you badge it with the fear-invoking 'Hellcat', check check.

And from a marketing standpoint, this may be the most important one; you unapologetically envelope the masses via commercials and showcase other trim levels in movies (nightcrawler, focus, furious 7) to the point where they can't forget this bloody car exists, check check checkmate. This then transcends into celebrities buying their own, which ends up being free marketing for Dodge. The whole 'Oooh, Ben Afleck has one. He seems to be a cool guy. I wanna be cool like Ben'. Then you have Dwight Howard, etc, etc. And if you can't afford a hc like Ben, get a less pricey model and you can still be half as cool as Ben...a sale that I'm sure Dodge is perfectly okay with.

We had transformers almost a decade ago. Maybe they're out there, but I haven't seen a single commercial for a zl1 or gt500...ever. So let's give credit where credit is due to Dodge and their marketing team. Zl1 all day for me, chief. But I respect what the other side has accomplished both from a business standpoint and their ability to build a cargo ship on wheels that can comfortably seat 4 people, and still outrun more expensive and lighter vehicles in a straight line.

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IMO its way beyond just marketing, this car was and still is the baddest street muscle car ever produced. This is why it gets the hype, this is why it dominated the auto news publications as well as media in general for nearly a year. The car performs where you need/want it too on the street.

The car is just plain cool, a ton of hp, striking good looks, legendary reputation, and comfort to boot. Capable of low 11s stock, top-end of 204-mph, with comfort, for 65k what is not to like.

Just like all cars could it be better yes, drop 200-300 lbs and get some bigger stickier rubber out back.

[big dave]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Explain please.

What I'm saying is there are just as many videos of hellcats beating z06s as the other way around. These two aren't even in the same category when it comes to power to weight. Yet, somehow, we've seen supposed stock hellcats pulling on vettes. Now I've seen stock z06s run 10s, but hellcats aren't far behind on drag radials. Either way, I'm hoping Chevy surprises us with a bit more power than originally revealed...at least more than the last gt500

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by newmoon

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IMO its way beyond just marketing, this car was and still is the baddest street muscle car ever produced. This is why it gets the hype, this is why it dominated the auto news publications as well as media in general for nearly a year. The car performs where you need/want it too on the street.

The car is just plain cool, a ton of hp, striking good looks, legendary reputation, and comfort to boot. Capable of low 11s stock, top-end of 204-mph, with comfort, for 65k what is not to like.

Just like all cars could it be better yes, drop 200-300 lbs and get some bigger stickier rubber out back.

I just can't get excited about anything besides it's hp. But it certainly made the news, and people like it!

When the ZL1 comes out, I hope they focus on putting the power down to the ground more than they focus on peak ##...I'm not interested in a dyno queen.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I just can't get excited about anything besides it's hp. But it certainly made the news, and people like it!

When the ZL1 comes out, I hope they focus on putting the power down to the ground more than they focus on peak ##...I'm not interested in a dyno queen.

I would love to see GM market the new car heavily. How many Camaro commercials do you see? How many have you EVER seen for the Chevy SS?

Ridiculous.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Raven87

I would love to see GM market the new car heavily. How many Camaro commercials do you see? How many have you EVER seen for the Chevy SS?

Ridiculous.

Well, the Chevy SS is nothing to them...a "free" car to sell for a lot of $$ and just say they have a RWD sedan. Sort of disappointing that it isn't something better...

But it would be nice to see some Camaro commercials. That Middle East one with the runway was awesome. Would love to see something like that.

[Sven59]

And the worst reputation for reliability, the reason I would never buy one.

[GoneBoy]

Originally Posted by newmoon

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IMO its way beyond just marketing, this car was and still is the baddest street muscle car ever produced. This is why it gets the hype, this is why it dominated the auto news publications as well as media in general for nearly a year. The car performs where you need/want it too on the street.

The car is just plain cool, a ton of hp, striking good looks, legendary reputation, and comfort to boot. Capable of low 11s stock, top-end of 204-mph, with comfort, for 65k what is not to like.

Just like all cars could it be better yes, drop 200-300 lbs and get some bigger stickier rubber out back.

Oh I totally agree with you. I guess I should have clarified that they marketed it and MADE SUIRE they could back it up. But to me, it all begins with putting it in the public's eye, and from there it catches on like wildfire. I mean, its a 65K car that snaps more necks than a 190k 911 turbo. Us car guys would know the difference between the models, but to the average Joe, a 911 is a 911 is a 911.

So I personally don't care about folks showering me with attention, and when I get the zl1, most won't even blink an eye and others won't be able to even tell the difference between mine and a 2010 V-6. But to me, I'll be at the road coarse kissing the apexes in the most badass muscle car to date. To the hc's trying to keep up with me...good luck.

[Mister Will]

Originally Posted by GoneBoy

So I personally don't care about folks showering me with attention, and when I get the zl1, most won't even blink an eye and others won't be able to even tell the difference between mine and a 2010 V-6. But to me, I'll be at the road coarse kissing the apexes in the most badass muscle car to date. To the hc's trying to keep up with me...good luck.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by GoneBoy

And from a marketing standpoint, this may be the most important one; you unapologetically envelope the masses via commercials and showcase other trim levels in movies (nightcrawler, focus, furious 7) to the point where they can't forget this bloody car exists, check check checkmate. This then transcends into celebrities buying their own, which ends up being free marketing for Dodge. The whole 'Oooh, Ben Afleck has one. He seems to be a cool guy. I wanna be cool like Ben'. Then you have Dwight Howard, etc, etc. And if you can't afford a hc like Ben, get a less pricey model and you can still be half as cool as Ben...a sale that I'm sure Dodge is perfectly okay with.

We had transformers almost a decade ago. Maybe they're out there, but I haven't seen a single commercial for a zl1 or gt500...ever. So let's give credit where credit is due to Dodge and their marketing team.

All that marketing with little pay off. The Mustang is outselling the Challenger 2 or 3 to 1 with little advertising. The Camaro (with almost no advertising) continues to outsell it as well. And contrary to what some believe, the Hellcats (producing as many as they can) have resulted in the same yearly totals of the ZL1 and GT500 did in the past years. Sure the cars are selling as fast as they can build them, but it would have without the marketing. These cars appeal to such a small selection of buyers to begin with. One can argue that the Hellcat simply existing is a better advertisement than all the money they have spent on commercials and movies. So once again FCA is spending money in the wrong places and bankrupting themselves.