[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Audi like interior????

Not like any Audi I've owned, not even close.

As for visibility, my ONLY concern and those of you that think the visibility is ok can't seem to grasp is some people will find it a problem to the point they MAY NOT buy the car. And for me that's the problem. As I've tried to be honest and clear, GM's market share continues to fall and they sell almost no cars on the East or West Coasts. Car market share is nearly HALF of the low 16% they have nationally and that includes trucks that are around 30%. Now was the time for greatness on all counts for this car. They played it conservative and went more of the same. I'm just don't understand how anyone can say, "it's ok for me so it can't possibly be an issue" even though we keep discussing it and every review so far makes note of it. It is an issue and just because you think a back up camera ( and again use one in the rain or snow ) is sufficient for you doesn't mean people are idiots for thinking it is.

In the end, this thread is about sales. And visibility, a noted concern by many including the magazines, may lead to fewer sales than what might have been possible if GM made different decisions.

I am truly and honestly happy for you guys that don't see visibility as an issue. Just be open enough to other viewpoints and concerns of others.

I'm completely open to your's and what would seem to be many other folks concerns about visibility. I guess I'm just used to it from the types of vehicles I've driven in my entire adult life. My wife does comment about it when we go for drives. So I do get what you are saying. I'm only speaking from my own experiences that it really isn't a thought in my mind. Maybe someday it will be. If that is a driving factor that is affecting sales of this new car, then it couod proove to be a huge fail on GM's part.

[Bongos2U]

Originally Posted by Techn9cian805

couldn't have put it better.

If you can't adapt, then don't even risk it and just leave that Camaro on the lot for a better driver that can, and let that be the end of the visibility complaint. I adapted to my 2014's visibility within the first day, its not rocket science.

If this statement causes one less sale, then too bad... Chevy/GM could have done more to improve its visibility and silence the whiny half-blind folks who see this as a big issue... But it is what it is. I don't care either way, as long as I get mine

This dead-horse visibility complaint is making me get all belligerent... time for some Camaro therapy to relax me lol

Well put. I just read an article about Dodge recalling some Chargers because they slipped off jack stands while people were trying to change a tire. Dodge's remedy?...Issue the owners wheel chocks. Seems like people are too lazy to read their owner's manual to find out where to place the jack stand. Another "Common Sense is Dead" recall.

If you can't handle the aggressive styling of the Camaro, then you should not be driving sports cars in the first place.

Oops...I called the Camaro a sports car...My bad.

Another subject that people are saying that might spell the Camaro's doom is price. FYI...All Mustang GT's in my area are priced in the mid '40s (43K-47K) range.

Slow roll out of the 2016 Camaro could be because of new assembly plant, and the QC hold. Who knows, who cares ??

We should get a clearer picture of sales when the March-April numbers are released. If we don't see a sales spike by then...Ruh Roh.

[kcpoloman]

Originally Posted by Bongos2U

Well put. I just read an article about Dodge recalling some Chargers because they slipped off jack stands while people were trying to change a tire. Dodge's remedy?...Issue the owners wheel chocks. Seems like people are too lazy to read their owner's manual to find out where to place the jack stand. Another "Common Sense is Dead" recall.

If you can't handle the aggressive styling of the Camaro, then you should not be driving sports cars in the first place.

Oops...I called the Camaro a sports car...My bad.

Another subject that people are saying that might spell the Camaro's doom is price. FYI...All Mustang GT's in my area are priced in the mid '40s (43K-47K) range.

Slow roll out of the 2016 Camaro could be because of new assembly plant, and the QC hold. Who knows, who cares ??

We should get a clearer picture of sales when the March-April numbers are released. If we don't see a sales spike by then...Ruh Roh.

Same near me. A V8 Mustang starts at 40k, all the way up to 50k for the premium trims.

[Camaro596]

Originally Posted by kcpoloman

Same near me. A V8 Mustang starts at 40k, all the way up to 50k for the premium trims.

Maybe this is because I'm in SoCal, but the GT Premium's start @ just over 37K, and even if you add Nav and some other options it would still be less than 40K. Ford has also been aggressively pricing the Mustang (once again, maybe a SoCal thing), plus their Conv is available and it's in its second year of production so hopefully most of the bugs have been worked out.

I've taken two 2016 Camaros for a test drive, the first was a totally loaded LT2 with just about every option that had a MSRP of almost 41K! I love the way the Camaro drives and in my opinion it's a more solid car than the Mustang, but the visibility and head room was an issue (the sun roof seemed to reduce the head room at least 2-3", and I'm just under 6' so I was surprised there wasn't more room).

As much as I liked the Camaro it's a head scratcher that they couldn't have done something about the visibility. I kind of felt like I was in a fox hole at first.

Another thing that's odd is I've never seen a car this big that had such a tiny trunk and trunk opening. I know this isn't a mini van, but it's about 50% smaller than the Mustang and there are times when a trunk comes in handy.

So I like the way the car drives and looks, but I also couldn't stop thinking that I could get a GT for at least 3K LESS than the V6 / A8 Camaro.

The second car I drove was a base LT1 with the V6 / A8 that had a MSRP of just under 30K. Even though it was the base model it was still nicely equipped and since it wasn't weighed down with as many options it seemed to have a more sporty feel. Since it didn't have the sun roof, head room was much improved and visibility seemed better (maybe I was just getting used to it, lol!) but if I'm further nit picking I would say that 'jeez are those 'A' pillars wide!' Same ridiculously small trunk...

As I mentioned before, I like the way the Camaro looks and drives, but it does have some issues, not the least of is cost, and the Mustang is a really nice car that is more practical and much more affordable (I expect the Ford 'Presidents Sale!' ads to be coming on any second now).

As other people have mentioned, I think the Camaro is going to win most of the comparison tests, and have a significant performance edge. I'm not sure that's going to translate to more sales than the Mustang though, especially since Chevy seems to be shipping a higher percentage of the more expensive, loaded cars...

[Bongos2U]

Originally Posted by Camaro596

Maybe this is because I'm in SoCal, but the GT Premium's start @ just over 37K, and even if you add Nav and some other options it would still be less than 40K. Ford has also been aggressively pricing the Mustang (once again, maybe a SoCal thing), plus their Conv is available and it's in its second year of production so hopefully most of the bugs have been worked out.

I've taken two 2016 Camaros for a test drive, the first was a totally loaded LT2 with just about every option that had a MSRP of almost 41K! I love the way the Camaro drives and in my opinion it's a more solid car than the Mustang, but the visibility and head room was an issue (the sun roof seemed to reduce the head room at least 2-3", and I'm just under 6' so I was surprised there wasn't more room).

As much as I liked the Camaro it's a head scratcher that they couldn't have done something about the visibility. I kind of felt like I was in a fox hole at first.

Another thing that's odd is I've never seen a car this big that had such a tiny trunk and trunk opening. I know this isn't a mini van, but it's about 50% smaller than the Mustang and there are times when a trunk comes in handy.

So I like the way the car drives and looks, but I also couldn't stop thinking that I could get a GT for at least 3K LESS than the V6 / A8 Camaro.

The second car I drove was a base LT1 with the V6 / A8 that had a MSRP of just under 30K. Even though it was the base model it was still nicely equipped and since it wasn't weighed down with as many options it seemed to have a more sporty feel. Since it didn't have the sun roof, head room was much improved and visibility seemed better (maybe I was just getting used to it, lol!) but if I'm further nit picking I would say that 'jeez are those 'A' pillars wide!' Same ridiculously small trunk...

As I mentioned before, I like the way the Camaro looks and drives, but it does have some issues, not the least of is cost, and the Mustang is a really nice car that is more practical and much more affordable (I expect the Ford 'Presidents Sale!' ads to be coming on any second now).

As other people have mentioned, I think the Camaro is going to win most of the comparison tests, and have a significant performance edge. I'm not sure that's going to translate to more sales than the Mustang though, especially since Chevy seems to be shipping a higher percentage of the more expensive, loaded cars...

I know I am nit-picking...But next time can you get the nomenclature correct on the different models of Camaro. 1LT, 2LT, etc. instead of LT1, LT2. When you said you drove a base LT1, I thought you drove a 1SS...Until you said it was a V6.

Regarding your comment about the "A" pillars..For a moment I thought you were reviewing the 5th. gen. Camaro.

[ChefBorOzzy]

The trunk on the Camaro is not 50 percent smaller, but the trunk on the Mustang is about 50 percent larger.

And Camaro596, is something wrong or do you really have only 3 posts while you joined in 2012? That's nuts!

Both of these cars are really good. Optioned out how I would want the Mustang and Camaro, Camaro is about 1-2k more MSRP wise and has a few extra features.

[detltu]

Originally Posted by Camaro596

Maybe this is because I'm in SoCal, but the GT Premium's start @ just over 37K, and even if you add Nav and some other options it would still be less than 40K. Ford has also been aggressively pricing the Mustang (once again, maybe a SoCal thing), plus their Conv is available and it's in its second year of production so hopefully most of the bugs have been worked out.

I've taken two 2016 Camaros for a test drive, the first was a totally loaded LT2 with just about every option that had a MSRP of almost 41K! I love the way the Camaro drives and in my opinion it's a more solid car than the Mustang, but the visibility and head room was an issue (the sun roof seemed to reduce the head room at least 2-3", and I'm just under 6' so I was surprised there wasn't more room).

As much as I liked the Camaro it's a head scratcher that they couldn't have done something about the visibility. I kind of felt like I was in a fox hole at first.

Another thing that's odd is I've never seen a car this big that had such a tiny trunk and trunk opening. I know this isn't a mini van, but it's about 50% smaller than the Mustang and there are times when a trunk comes in handy.

So I like the way the car drives and looks, but I also couldn't stop thinking that I could get a GT for at least 3K LESS than the V6 / A8 Camaro.

The second car I drove was a base LT1 with the V6 / A8 that had a MSRP of just under 30K. Even though it was the base model it was still nicely equipped and since it wasn't weighed down with as many options it seemed to have a more sporty feel. Since it didn't have the sun roof, head room was much improved and visibility seemed better (maybe I was just getting used to it, lol!) but if I'm further nit picking I would say that 'jeez are those 'A' pillars wide!' Same ridiculously small trunk...

As I mentioned before, I like the way the Camaro looks and drives, but it does have some issues, not the least of is cost, and the Mustang is a really nice car that is more practical and much more affordable (I expect the Ford 'Presidents Sale!' ads to be coming on any second now).

As other people have mentioned, I think the Camaro is going to win most of the comparison tests, and have a significant performance edge. I'm not sure that's going to translate to more sales than the Mustang though, especially since Chevy seems to be shipping a higher percentage of the more expensive, loaded cars...

Price is certainly an issue. I suspect it will be an issue for more people than the visibility is. I haven't taken a tape measure to them, but I think the A pillar is narrower in the 6th gen(vs 5th gen). The dash is also lower (again compared to the 5th gen). Visibility hasn't been an issue for me or my wife in the 5th gen, but I get that some people don't like it. Most people that ride with me comment that they like how it feels like you are in a cockpit, but they may just be finding things to like about my car.

[Camaro596]

Good point, sorry it was getting late (lol!), but the base car was a 1LT and the premium car was a 2LT with just about every option. To confirm they were 6th gen, and yes, I did think the 'A' pillars were large...

Originally Posted by Bongos2U

I know I am nit-picking...But next time can you get the nomenclature correct on the different models of Camaro. 1LT, 2LT, etc. instead of LT1, LT2. When you said you drove a base LT1, I thought you drove a 1SS...Until you said it was a V6.

Regarding your comment about the "A" pillars..For a moment I thought you were reviewing the 5th. gen. Camaro.

[Camaro596]

Good catch on the posting count, I joined back in 2012 when I was interested in the 5th gen, but if I'm being honest I really wasn't that fond of it when I drove it so I dropped off the forum.

As I mentioned about pricing (at least in SoCal) a lot of the Ford dealers are very aggressive with their pricing and Ford itself often offers very favorable programs on top of that. The Chevy dealers I've talked basically said it's a new car the price is on the window. Given that, it's a huge difference in OTD pricing for a comparably equipped Mustang and Camaro.

I actually prefer the Chevy V6 / A8 to the Ford V6 or Ecoboost, but when I think of comparing it to the V8 in the GT it's a tough call...

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

The trunk on the Camaro is not 50 percent smaller, but the trunk on the Mustang is about 50 percent larger.

And Camaro596, is something wrong or do you really have only 3 posts while you joined in 2012? That's nuts!

Both of these cars are really good. Optioned out how I would want the Mustang and Camaro, Camaro is about 1-2k more MSRP wise and has a few extra features.

[Techn9cian805]

I want to add one more thing that i'll probably get flamed for here, but keep in mind its just an opinion...

I think that the mustang is a more beautiful car than the Camaro. the lines of the mustang are too nice to deny as pure beauty and elegance.


and the Camaro looks more aggressive and vicious; when you see it, you see a hunger for blood... like Jeremy Clarkson once said, "only murderers drive Camaros"


I think the beauty will outsell the beast for this generation. I say this because I truly think the casual buyer, which makes up a large portion of the market, will side with the more "pretty" car. I think the gen 5 Camaro was much more beautiful than the hunchback of notre dame that was the last gen mustang... now the tables have turned.

[SpeedIsLife]

I think the Mustang was also very much designed to be a "world car", so it has "global sensibilities" in mind with the design. The Camaro, where the American domestic market will be its focus, is much more unreservedly bold and "American" in design.

[Techn9cian805]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

I think the Mustang was also very much designed to be a "world car", so it has "global sensibilities" in mind with the design. The Camaro, where the American domestic market will be its focus, is much more unreservedly bold and "American" in design.

I agree. Maybe its just me, but this gen's mustang looks too much like this little german thing..

[Bongos2U]

Originally Posted by Techn9cian805

I want to add one more thing that i'll probably get flamed for here, but keep in mind its just an opinion...

I think that the mustang is a more beautiful car than the Camaro. the lines of the mustang are too nice to deny as pure beauty and elegance.


and the Camaro looks more aggressive and vicious; when you see it, you see a hunger for blood... like Jeremy Clarkson once said, "only murderers drive Camaros"


I think the beauty will outsell the beast for this generation. I say this because I truly think the casual buyer, which makes up a large portion of the market, will side with the more "pretty" car. I think the gen 5 Camaro was much more beautiful than the hunchback of notre dame that was the last gen mustang... now the tables have turned.

Yes...Somebody on another thread posted that the Camaro is a predator, the Mustang is prey. Couldn't have said it better myself.

I guess Mustang owners can sing along with this song while driving around in their cars listening to the soundtrack to "West Side Story".

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by RenegadeXR

Because making the greenhouse a little bit taller to allow some breathing space would have been sacrilege, right?

That looks like ass.