[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 5thGenOwner

First line of the article reads...

"OnStar Inc. President Chris Preuss is directing a group to study business opportunities from which his company might reap additional revenues..."

Later in the article they specifically mention insurance companies, my earlier quote. I would guess insurance companies would definately be the biggest additional revenue they could get. (they even approached Onstar, they want it so bad)

I think the difference in the wording between the disclosure and the article is semantics. They did the studies, saw opportunities, and now are executing them.

Interesting...assuming this begins to take effect...maybe OnStar can begin to include a "track" button on performance GM vehicles....the equivalent of call holding when you want to have some legal fun and not weigh on your rates.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by 5thGenOwner

First line of the article reads...

"OnStar Inc. President Chris Preuss is directing a group to study business opportunities from which his company might reap additional revenues..."

Later in the article they specifically mention insurance companies, my earlier quote. I would guess insurance companies would definately be the biggest additional revenue they could get. (they even approached Onstar, they want it so bad)

I think the difference in the wording between the disclosure and the article is semantics. They did the studies, saw opportunities, and now are executing them.

Heres the sticking point. Many people are going to automatically believe that the "insurance" part means that they are watching you. Or if you get in a wreck that the first thing they are gonna do is call OnStar and say "how fast was he going"? but in reality that is likely not the case.

OnStar's usage data goes into a database and can be extrapolated into any number of statistics. These statistcs are HUGELY valuable to insurance companies. They can tell where people are driving more, where crashes happen more often (remember Insurer's data is only where they have policies in force and claims, so if theres an area of your state that theres not a lot of policies, their data is low there), average speeds in areas. Having worked for one of the major insurance companies this data is GOLD to them as it allows them to be ultra competitive in an area while still pricing to maintain a profit.

Is it theoretically possible that State Farm can call them up and say "How fast was Bob Jones going at 5:15 PM on Wednesday", I'm sure anything is possible, but this scenario sounds highly unlikely, and based upon the exact words in their disclosure the only thing you really would need to worry about is law enforcement, and I would bet thats only in criminal case proceedings. They don't have time to call OnStar about your fender bender, they have bigger fish to fry.

When it comes to Criminal Cases, I'd hope none of us ever have that issue anyway

Now I'm gonna put my flame jacket on for the onslaught of replies that tell me I'm an idiot, I don't know what I'm talking about, OnStar and the government is out to get us all, the insurance companies are out to get us all, and my tin-foil hat must be defective.

[Xello]

I don't see the Onstar policy as a big issue. As stated, there is a way to permanently disconnect. Most people, including users in this forum, give up more personal information while browsing the web and don't even realize it.

Besides, how many complainers have an I-Pass or EZ-Pass? Those can track you too.

[5thGenOwner]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

Heres the sticking point. Many people are going to automatically believe that the "insurance" part means that they are watching you. Or if you get in a wreck that the first thing they are gonna do is call OnStar and say "how fast was he going"? but in reality that is likely not the case.

OnStar's usage data goes into a database and can be extrapolated into any number of statistics. These statistcs are HUGELY valuable to insurance companies. They can tell where people are driving more, where crashes happen more often (remember Insurer's data is only where they have policies in force and claims, so if theres an area of your state that theres not a lot of policies, their data is low there), average speeds in areas. Having worked for one of the major insurance companies this data is GOLD to them as it allows them to be ultra competitive in an area while still pricing to maintain a profit.

Is it theoretically possible that State Farm can call them up and say "How fast was Bob Jones going at 5:15 PM on Wednesday", I'm sure anything is possible, but this scenario sounds highly unlikely, and based upon the exact words in their disclosure the only thing you really would need to worry about is law enforcement, and I would bet thats only in criminal case proceedings. They don't have time to call OnStar about your fender bender, they have bigger fish to fry.

When it comes to Criminal Cases, I'd hope none of us ever have that issue anyway

Now I'm gonna put my flame jacket on for the onslaught of replies that tell me I'm an idiot, I don't know what I'm talking about, OnStar and the government is out to get us all, the insurance companies are out to get us all, and my tin-foil hat must be defective.

Haha... no need to put your flame suit on.

I didn't give the long explanation like you did, of how the data will be used, but I did have it all written at one time (backspace, backspace, backspace)... I then figured it wasn't necessary, as common sense tells us they are not going to ask what speed Bob was driving @ 6pm on Tuesday September 6th, 2011.

Although I was thinking that the gps tracking data might be useful as well, in some fashion... maybe not to an insurance company, but to someone. There is a lot of very useful data collected by Onstar, and they would be stupid to just sit on it.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by Comrando

My sister is a para-legal and they routinely warrant the black-box data for automobile accidents. She was surprised when I told her that only has 15-20 seconds of data. It is a tool the manufacturer puts in so they can determine the cause of a mechanical failure. It does not maintain a record of all the driving you have ever done.

Yes but black boxes are on every car, OnStar is not.

I've never heard of OnStar tracking data used for accident fault, however I have heard it used a few times in criminal cases like wiretapping (mobsters).

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by 5thGenOwner

Haha... no need to put your flame suit on.

I didn't give the long explanation like you did, of how the data will be used, but I did have it all written at one time (backspace, backspace, backspace)... I then figured it wasn't necessary, as common sense tells us they are not going to ask what speed Bob was driving @ 6pm on Tuesday September 6th, 2011.

Although I was thinking that the gps tracking data might be useful as well, in some fashion... maybe not to an insurance company, but to someone. There is a lot of very useful data collected by Onstar, and they would be stupid to just sit on it.

LMAO...

So you seriously figured it wasn't necessary because common sens would say..... on this forum? Have you read these posts???

[5thGenOwner]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

LMAO...

So you seriously figured it wasn't necessary because common sens would say..... on this forum? Have you read these posts???

Well, I see your point. But...

One, I don't think Onstar wants that reputation... they are going to take enough heat just for yesterday's disclosure. If you add to that the idea that they are going to be giving out very specific personal driving/location information... it would lose customers in droves! I think there's a line that they do not want to cross.

Two... that aside, it just wouldn't be cost effective for an insurance company to request personal detail info. They would have to pay through the nose (or some orifice) for that data. If they want that specific data, it would be much easier/cheaper to do it themselves, and some of them are... "You put this monitoring device in your car, you get a discount."

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by 5thGenOwner

Well, I see your point. But...

One, I don't think Onstar wants that reputation... they are going to take enough heat just for yesterday's disclosure. If you add to that the idea that they are going to be giving out very specific personal driving/location information... it would lose customers in droves! I think there's a line that they do not want to cross.

Two... that aside, it just wouldn't be cost effective for an insurance company to request personal detail info. They would have to pay through the nose (or some orifice) for that data. If they want that specific data, it would be much easier/cheaper to do it themselves, and some of them are... "You put this monitoring device in your car, you get a discount."

I completely 100% agree with you. My point was more it doesn't matter how much sense you make, if you search "OnStar" on this forum (or heck just look through the first page of threads on it in General Discussion) you will find a large amount of complete ignorance to it here.

[BowtieBelle]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

At first - I was very nervous when I read the title and the first few posts...I even sent a message off that I now regret. After digging *just a little* deeper...

Here's how I read it...fwiw...translation in blue



Detailed below, we're letting you know that the two-way data connection with your car will be in operation, even if you unsubscribe to our services. But if you'd like us to not do that - please call and we'll honor your request. If you're wearing a tin-foil hat, and check the sky for surveillance satellites every night before bed; your dealer can even rip out the physical OnStar system to ensure your stress levels remain at a healthy level.

.........As we mentioned, we'll reserve the right to collect data from your car for the following purposes. We may collect call/report/usage data from you to improve our services. If asked we'll share information such as current location, etc to law enforcement...but we're not going to go out of our way to "tell on you". If you owe us money, we may share your information with the credit card companies, and perhaps use compiled data such as total miles traveled in your model of car or number of OnStar calls in a year with our marketing partners (like GM, duh!) to better spread the word about OnStar in this increasingly competitive Industry of In-Vehicle safety telematics.


I don't see a huge issue to be frank.

Yes, there are now clear and explicit additions to the ways they're going to use your driving data. And they've changed the UNSUBSCRIBE default to "on" for their data logging...basically adding an extra step to get them to go blind.

But you see that? One more step taken -- and they're still blind, just like before. No credit card processors...no joint marketing initiatives...and never, not even if they're still monitoring, insurance companies. I didn't see them mentioned...

What I read was a lot of explanation for a small change.


EDIT: For those still worried - I recommend you put the above amendment in context and read the whole privacy statement: http://www.onstar.com/web/portal/privacy

[obe1]

I contacted On Star this morning regarding their Terms and Conditions. They stated that the email notification I received was in error and that they're in the process of correcting it and will resend. The agent stated that they are an emergency service provider and will only share info with the police in the case of a reported stolen vehicle (if you're not an active On Star customer).

[My 5th]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

They're disclosing their privacy policy to customers - you can read exactly what they're doing. That's the law. They're legal. Wiretapping is secret. These are two completely different things you're attempting to connect, here....

I don't think so. It is illegal for marketing firms/scams to send you a letter saying they will ship you an unsolicited product (and bill you for it) unless you contact them and affirmatively refuse it. That's essentially what Onstar is doing..."...if you don't want us monitoring what you do you have to make the effort to remove our device--at your expense..."

In effect you bought Product A from Onstar, now they want to change their product and send you Product B, but you can't refuse it unless YOU act at your expense. Same thing.

It's a scam pure and simple.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by My 5th

I don't think so. It is illegal for marketing firms/scams to send you a letter saying they will ship you an unsolicited product (and bill you for it) unless you contact them and affirmatively refuse it. That's essentially what Onstar is doing..."...if you don't want us monitoring what you do you have to make the effort to remove our device--at your expense..."

In effect you bought Product A from Onstar, now they want to change their product and send you Product B, but you can't refuse it unless YOU act at your expense. Same thing.

It's a scam pure and simple.

No, this is completely 100% wrong. They arent shipping you a product, they arent charging you for anything. They also aren't changing their product at all. They are not doing anything for you. They MAY use your usage data for market research, which doesn't mean they are handing out your name and address, they are using it for statistics. They provided a toll free 1-800 number for you to deactivate it. They have told you every single thing they are doing.

The only expense to you is about 3 minutes of your time and the electricity of your battery for a 3 minute phonecall.

[macwest]

Isn't onstar linked into the computer system so removing it is not as easy as it sounds?

[slick rick]

Originally Posted by macwest

Isn't onstar linked into the computer system so removing it is not as easy as it sounds?

It's behind the glove box, easy to remove

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51929

If you have C&C package then you'll lose Bluetooth for hands free phone if you remove the Onstar module.