[The_Stache]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

Thanks guys. I hope I can get the car this week...

Then I have to haggle with the insurance company... YaaaaaY

Don't haggle, send the bill with receipts certified mail to liberty mutual. They cant ignore that, if they do find a good lawyer.

At that point you'd be eligible for pain and suffering.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

Don't haggle, send the bill with receipts certified mail to liberty mutual. They cant ignore that, if they do find a good lawyer.

At that point you'd be eligible for pain and suffering.

Yeah, but, I wanna know when they get to feel pain and suffering?

[Mr Twisty]

You're just going to have to get a good "MAD" on and go visit their office.

[GTAHVIT]

I've done enough of that today already. Maybe tomorrow. Oh and I did find another shop to do an audit on the repair.

Thanks for that advice.

[Mr Twisty]

Just think, 10 years from now you won't even remember all this crap

[GTAHVIT]

Cool, I uuuhh think?

[MrIcky]

Let me add my 2 cents here. This is going to be kind of long and I apologize. I was an Insurance Adjuster for 6 years for Progressive. I'm now the Claims Manager at a specialty insurance pool that runs the insurance for all the Cities, Counties, and Special Purpose Districts in Idaho (with a couple exceptions). I'll explain how the other side works because people really don't understand it. My job now and the company I work for is wonderful- but shareholder driven corporate insurance is a very rough industry.

First of all, getting your 'mad' on isn't going to help anyone. The adjuster will tune you out, he's heard it all before. He's a working stiff who has basically THE job from hell and he just wants to go home. Don't think you can yell at his boss to make it better either- his boss was just able to absorb abuse for longer until he became the boss. Typically insurance decisions are corporate driven and reviewed by audits. If the adjuster can't explain everything they did on an audit, it will effect their paycheck. Therefore, the local guy has some percentage to work with but basically he can't go too far out of a reasonable 'range' for your problem. Think of him/her as someone who went to college to end up working in the complaint department.

A quick aside on the basic model on how insurance companies make money. They take your premium, then they spend it on wrecks caused by people in the program, plus their employees and buildings, etc. It's important to know that because a well run insurance company will spend between $.88 and $.96 of every dollar they earn on administration and claims. A poorly run company loses money every year but has enough investment income that they turn 'profitable' even though they really weren't. Big insurance companies have a lot in the bank because those $.04-.12 add up but it's really tight because of competition.

Your claim will be broken up into 3 pieces. The loss of your vehicle, Your 'special' damages, and your 'general' damages.

The handling of the loss of your vehicle is generally tightly controlled by state laws. The state determines the fair use of aftermarket or used parts. The insurance company negotiates within the laws and the guidelines of the company to get that resolved. I won't get into that part unless I get asked too. Dimunition of Value claims are different in every state. In my state you have to prove a Dimunition of Value claim so unless it shows as a big hit on CarFax or you had a really rare car you will lose. Your state may be different though so don't take that as gospel.

Then you have your 'special' damages. These will NOT be related to transportation issues (except ambulances). Everything related to your car will be considered resolved in the vehicle portion. The basic definition is that these are damages for your injuries provable by receipt. Medical bills are the most basic example. Another example would be something like you had to hire someone to mow your lawn because your arm got broken. Missed work only counts as lost wages if you can prove you either lost pay or you had to use vacation pay.

Now you get to the 'generals' portion of your claim (pain and suffering). The most important thing you can do for you is clearly document your claim. This includes how long you felt pain (use dates), clearly describe the pain, describe what you couldn't do or you could do but only with great pain. A strong example of something that add's value to a claim with no receipt is a mother can't lift her child for a week due to back pain. Things like dimunition of value can be brought up here if your state doesn't have a formal process. Don't expect much out of this- but you can make a $1000 claim into an $1100 claim. Also, most states require you to prove your damage. Those steps you took to prove your damages are not recompensable (because the state required it-so mileage and personal time for taking your car to the shop has no value). The type of injuries proven on the 'specials' will have the biggest impact on the amount of money offered in the 'generals'.

You shouldn't have to haggle on the special portion of your claim. It's the general's portion where you negotiate. Don't expect to be fully compensated for inconvenience unless you took meticulous records. Most states (meaning the court system) accept that accidents will cause a certain amount of inconvenience. If money is awarded for every little thing, then rates go up and companies leave reducing competition.

If the adjuster is worth his salt, he/she will take the description of your injury and compare it to what has been paid for similar cases in your legal jurisdiction. They'll probably have a pretty good idea of your injury's value off the top of their head since it's the most common type of injury. They'll consider both private settlement and court cases. From this information they'll come up with a reasonable settlement range. If you didn't break any bones or spend a night in the hospital, threatening an attorney won't get you very far. Most attorneys who handle this kind of case are very poor. If you have a family attorney who can help you out, that might be a good thing. Basically an attorney is just someone trained to be a better negotiator than you are. An attorney doesn't make a case worth more money, they just more effectively drive the case to the upper end of the reasonable settlement range, then they take a third so you end up in the middle of the range anyway.

Sorry for the VERY long post, just hope it helps you through the last part. And if you live in a no-fault state- good luck, blame your state legislature- not the adjuster.

[Mr Twisty]

He shouldn't have to sue just to get rental reimbursement, he took it to THEIR preferred shop so if it takes 2 months to get his car back that's between the adjuster and body shop.

If they jerk you around get with BBB, if that don't work you can still step it up a notch or 2 before heading to the courthouse. How is your neck feeling by the way? You might want to swallow your pride and go see the doctor before it gets worse.

If they decide to refuse diminished value, go to your local new car dealer and ask what they'll give you on trade. Then, after they find the repaired damage (they will) ask them how much they would have given you if it wasn't a crash car. Get it in writing if possible.

MrIcky, his only complaint at the moment is rental car reimbursement.

[MrIcky]

**I am editing this post because I'm way to long winded when I type**

Don't make the mistake of thinking this is a customer service matter. It's not. It's a legal matter. The BBB can't do squat. You want to talk to the DoI. They will confirm what the insurance company is required to do for you. Technically, the insurance company doesn't owe you for any rental until it's actually been incurred. They really don't even owe that until they get a court decision, however that's bad business because you end up in court to much. They should pay you for a rental with no issues unless your actions caused an unnecessary delay. You'll have to prove all delays were necessary and in so proving, you will effectively be arguing against your own dimunition of value claim. Talk to your DoI and find out what your state laws are on Dim Claims before you talk to anyone. Many places will require you to actually realize a loss before you are owed a dim of value claim.

[Mr Twisty]

...That's ok, good info. there.

<<Many places will require you to actually realize a loss before you are owed a dim of value claim. >> .... To what places are you referring? Insurance companies?


BBB is always a good place to start, even if the company you're dealing with is too self important to believe it hurts them. You would be surprised how many people use local BBB as a clearinghouse for information.

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69

<<Many places will require you to actually realize a loss before you are owed a dim of value claim. >> .... To what places are you referring? Insurance companies?

When I say places, I mean states. States (either through case law or legislative action) determine how Dimunition of Value is determined. I speak specifically of Idaho, however Idaho case law on the subject was modeled on other jurisdictions.

So unless your vehicle reaches collector car status or is rare and desirable enough that value will either hold or go up due to being all original, it's extremely hard to perfect a claim. I'm not saying you can't-but it's difficult.

[Mr Twisty]

When you talk about 'dimunition of value' it's the same as what I'm calling diminished value, right?

[GTAHVIT]

Ok,

To be clear. FL diminished value system is mandated for all insurance companies. And no it isn't negotiable. They enter in the numbers and a calculation spits out the DV amount. I can try and refute that and get more money but it takes a lot of work and the calculation is usually pretty close.

I will be asking for reimbursement of Vacation Time I have used. I may make a "General Claim" I haven't made up my mind. I have a history of head aches and I don't think it's been any worse since the accident. I was run down for two days after the accident, which suprised me. I've flown in Helicopters for nine years with some pretty hairy landings that were worse than the accident and didn't feel as bad as I did after the crash. My doctor said it could have been from comming down off the adrenalin high after the crash. But the bottom line is I feel just fine. So, I'm undecided.

Now, here is my complaint. And it is completely a customer service complaint.

My adjuster has failed to return any of my calls. Has cancelled, and in one case backdataed my rental car. They've denied payment to their own preferred repair center and sent me the check to sign over to the repair center. Which wouldn't normally be a problem but I didn't know that. So, I just get a check in the mail from Libery Mutual and I'm wondering WTF is this. My car is still getting repaired and the rental has been cancelled. So, I'm thinking they just cut me off. It took me 4 hours on the phone to sort that out.

I've spoken the the Team Lead for my adjuster office in FL and they agreed that I have had problem that make no sense and they will continue to work to straighten it all out. Meanwhile the rental company continues to bill me because Liberty Mutual keeps canceling my rental, and Liberty Mutual has yet to get my money back...

So, you can see my frustration. I don't think they are ripping me off. But they certainly aren't managing my claim very well. So this may figure into my General claim ammount.

Any advice on how to handle this?

[Mr Twisty]

The check they sent, was it for the amount of repairs? As long as they don't try to pull a 'Full and final settlement' on you, the body shop most likely won't give you the car until they have check in hand. Since the shop guarantees their work hopefully you won't have a problem with the independent evaluation. Do you have the body shop/insurance co. guarantee in writing?

The body shop is most likely top shelf, but don't sign over the check until the repairs are completed.

Treat the rental car as a separate issue, no need in getting the body shop involved in that. Repairs don't usually take this long, between the delay issues with the 1st shop and the holidays I imagine the adjuster is having a hard time justifying to his boss a month rental on a $5,000.00 repair, but that's his problem not yours... How much was the original estimate?