05-13-2021, 02:59 PM | #547 | ||
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
Posts: 6,030
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But even my friends in nicer newer buildings in the city, you know where they park? On the street, sometimes blocks away if they have to. Quote:
On my normal commute to and from work, there is 3 charging stations that I know of. The community college has one on campus, neighbor at work down the street put one in and the local grocery store has one. I am sure there is more but on my direct routes that is all I know off. There is 5 gas stations between my office and the 4 miles between the highway. Once more charging stations appear I am sure that will ease concerns but I just don't see the supporting tech for the vehicles yet. To me it's like Avatar james cameron had the script and screenplay ready but had to wait to make it for 15 years for technology to catch up so he could make it work. The tech in the cars is almost there, the supporting tech I don't see enough advancement there to match the push for EVs. |
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05-13-2021, 03:32 PM | #548 | |
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05-13-2021, 04:00 PM | #549 | ||
corner barstool sitter
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Norm
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'08 GT coupe 5M (the occasional track toy)
'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) Last edited by Norm Peterson; 05-17-2021 at 10:03 AM. |
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05-13-2021, 04:27 PM | #550 | |
corner barstool sitter
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Never mind that if the ultimate goal is 100% EVs that it has to be able to work at least reasonably well for everybody. Affordability is only one aspect (but you might want to consider the mountain of student debt that so many college graduates start their career with. If they can find a job in the field that they studied). Norm
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'08 GT coupe 5M (the occasional track toy)
'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
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05-13-2021, 04:55 PM | #551 | ||
Hail to the King baby!
Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
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There have been several hurdles for EVs over the past 10 years. First was simply range. You can taught all day that 90% of daily drives are less than 50 miles but that won't fix range anxiety. But the new Bolt and Bolt SUV are at 250 miles. Teslas with much more battery can get 400. Fixed. Next is cost. GM has said Ultium gets them to cost parity with an ICE. I haven't seen that. Lyriq pricing is $59,000 for a single motor RWD model. The similar 2 row SUV from Cadillac is the XT5. Starting price is $43,000. That's a big difference. Now the Lyriq is more stylish and likely has Escalade level tech compared to the XT5 but I can buy a lot of gas for $16,000. So maybe next gen batteries get us there but for now, NOT fixed. Charging. That's a work in progress. As pointed out there is not a convenient solution yet if you are not a homeowner. Yes, quick charging is an answer and yes people are going to work every day to fix that problem. But as of today, the infrastructure isn't there. So as of now, NOT fixed. Oh and a rare political comment from me, STOP paying people $7,500 to buy $100,000 plus Porsche, Audi and Tesla EVs. If you have to at least set a price that helps someone get into an EV for $20,000 or so. Maybe only apply it to EVs with a OTD price of less than $30,000. In the long run, the EV will likely be the better mousetrap for most people. You may not want a mouse trap, but profit will drive the solution as well as emissions. So if China wants EVs, the rest of the world will get EVs. Reason? The Chinese auto market is over 30 million per year, almost double the US. Scale wins. And if you want to check it, go the Buick China website and look at the cars we don't get here.
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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05-13-2021, 08:20 PM | #552 |
Hail to the King baby!
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A good reference article on the current state of track performance for an EV. A few months old.
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...jX570MTIz60Q6E
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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05-13-2021, 08:22 PM | #553 |
Drives: 2022 CT4-V Blackwing Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Florida
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Here are some of the driving nuances (good or bad, you decide) of an EV that you don't really fully realize until you own one for a while.
-Idling (so to speak) consumes very little energy (you don't feel like you are wasting money to keep the AC on), no extra heat from the engine or exhaust or fear of overheating if sitting in 110 degree heat. Nice for when you have to wait for someone in a parking lot, etc. This is just one of those things you appreciate and immediately sense an EV is much more efficient at. - Braking regen from the electric motor not only transfers some energy back into the main battery but it reduces the use of the friction brakes. Less fatigue in stop and go traffic with one pedal driving, less wear and extremely low brake dust on the wheels. I can go a couple months and without seeing any brake dust on the wheels. - Stop and go traffic - when the EV has no transmission and you are basically using one pedal to stop and go, it is just easier to drive and less annoying. The car will come to a complete stop and apply brake hold if you want. - Low noise and vibration - engine and exhaust noise is replaced with wind and tire noise. It is overall more peaceful if you like that. The big benefit is when listening to music. The audio sounds so much better in a quiet EV. On the flip side it is very quiet, some folks like that you can hear what the tires are doing in a turn but I would argue the drama you get from a muscle car is more exciting. Now if we are comparing the vibration and exhaust note of a Toyota Camry then I would rather drive the EV. - No transmission - this one has its pros and cons imo. The instant torque/throttle response and not having to wait for a downshift or upshift in many ways feels like a quantum leap over ICE. In normal street driving the car always feels like it is in the power band. Passing performance in the 0-70mph is absolutely ridiculous. So smooth and effortless. The downside is at higher speeds the EV will not have the same pull as it does at lower speeds. It still pulls plenty hard but you can tell the lack of gearing is limiting performance. I would expect to see 2-speed transmissions eventually show up in performance EVs. I think the Taycan is using a ZF 2-speed. - Charging at home is nice - it feels like you own the pump so to speak. Never having to stop at a gas station feels weird for the first few months and you always leave the house with a full charge if you top off each night. After a couple months the cost savings become very apparent if you drive the typical miles most folks do. I estimate about $200-300 savings per month for my wife and I. - Highway driving - this is where you see EVs are at a disadvantage. Some new EV owners do not like the pronounced wind and tire noise at highway speeds. They are not any louder but than ICE it is just without engine and exhaust noise you hear them both more. Also, you can immediately see the difference in efficiency on the highway. Without the regen in stop and go city driving you use up a lot more electrons keep the car moving at a steady 70mph+. On the positive side Autopilot in Tesla and SuperCruise in GM, adaptive cruise control and auto steering, reducing fatigue in longer trips. Spirited Driving - it is hard to explain and it may just be my OCD hangup but when I was in the mood to drive my Camaro or Corvette in a spirited manner I always felt like I was beating on it as if I was about to damage something. However, in the Tesla Performance EV I feel like you can mash the pedal at every opportunity and it doesn't feel like you are beating on it in the same way. I don't know if it is because of the simplicity of the EV powertrain, smoother power delivery or because you go 0-60mph in 3 flat with no noise or just the lack of overall drama but other owners have expressed this as well. It just seems to perform with less effort than ICE, I guess that is just the perk of a torque curve shaped like a square wave. Model 3 Performance in Blue and Model 3 Dual Motor in Red
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05-13-2021, 09:21 PM | #554 | |
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05-14-2021, 08:27 AM | #555 | |
Drives: 2019 1ss 1le, blue wrap Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Maryland
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That's an interesting article, i was surprised a $200k Taycan can't beat the ss 1le lightning lap time 2:54.8, but then i saw it weighs 5200lbs! Seems strange tesla won't let C&D a go with the m3 performance. What are they worried about? The car has a track mode for thermal management, and it wouldn't reach limp mode in 1 lap like the model S did. Does the m3p have eco tires stock, i don't think it does? |
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05-14-2021, 08:56 AM | #556 |
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Torrance
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A lot of unrealistic scenarios suggested to promote EVs....
Again the $200,000.00 Taycan as a EV track car. A ZL1 is less than half the price... Apartments going begging for tenants because they can't support on site EV charging...lol..That's a good one. The $7500.00 tax credit should be limited to EVs costing less than $30K. Which non-existent EV would that be? GM should be given another round of credits? And, according to Barra, that is supposedly the hallmark of a fair marketplace?..lol Just drive in a recharge for 15 minutes and have a ball while waiting. You'll have the place all to yourselves! Maybe for now. A current circumstance that will be very short lived should EVs start selling in any significant numbers... gm only makes the Bolt. Yet the charging and availability is touted as no problem. Of course it's no problem. There are hardly any EVs on the road yet. The generations and technology of batteries will get better and cheaper....That's a good one. Why buy anything now? Early adopters are already being told they are saps for buying in now. EV electric charging is cheap...for now. I don't know how any one can believe that will remain the case. The very reason for EVs is to end the use of fossil fuels. Those same fossil fuels provide the very electricity EVs need. The use of fossil fuels to provide electricity will also end the same way ICE cars will be forced to end. Everyone's bill will be outrageous. Wind and solar power just doesn't cut it as a replacement, and is nowhere near providing any significant alternative to fossil fuels. These are the good old days now... China's mass market dictates the move to EVs....For them, fine. They are in the process of building endless coal-fired power plants to provide the electricity for the EVs. What a massive bunch of BS when at the same time all the brain-washed toadies think EVs in the US will stop global warming. The push to EVs is a folly of epic proportions. After the current system of fossil fuel and ICE transportation is dismantled, the mantras and slogans promoting EVs won't prop up the horrifically inadequate EV world any longer. |
05-14-2021, 09:25 AM | #557 | |
corner barstool sitter
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Though at some point there will be 2-EV households, and having to get up at oh-dark-thirty to swap the charging cable into the other car isn't likely to set well with people. Especially where both cars cannot be kept "under cover". Is this issue even being discussed yet? I think I could go along with a sliding scale where the financial incentive to buy an EV gradually drops off as list price rises, at least up to some point where it goes away entirely. Norm
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'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
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05-14-2021, 09:36 AM | #558 | ||
Drives: 2022 CT4-V Blackwing Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Florida
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2002 Corvette Z06 - Black - Sold
2013 Camaro SS 1LE - Black - M6 - Sold 2016 Camaro SS - Mosaic Black - A8 - Sold 2017 C7 Stingray - M7 Coupe - Sold 2019 C7 Grand Sport M7 Vert - Sold 2021 Camaro ZL1 - Black - A10 - Sold 2019 Tesla Model 3 2022 CT4-V Blackwing - M6 |
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05-14-2021, 10:30 AM | #559 | ||||||||
corner barstool sitter
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We're just going to have to agree to disagree on the supposed value of those driver "assistances". Quote:
So yeah, I can picture how you might feel that way. Less effort for sure; no challenge on yourself to keep the engine running in an rpm range where it's happy enough for the situation of the moment, and you're not even going to be anticipating an AT upshift if that's how those cars are equipped. All you have to do is sit back, stomp, and let the car do the rest. Norm
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'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
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05-14-2021, 11:07 AM | #560 | |
Drives: 2019 1ss 1le, blue wrap Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Maryland
Posts: 633
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Yeah, i've seen that, it's an interesting video. But i'm still left with wondering how the tesla performs after a few laps when the battery reaches a thermal steady state. I've read there are varying degrees of degraded performance, for some it's not that noticeable, and others it's really it a big deal. I'm guessing it's track dependent. I like the lightning lap because it's a long track, and because the drivers do several laps to get a time. It's at least getting closer to encountering problems a car might encounter during a track day session. At a track event early this month, there was an on track incident that cut our session short. They scheduled our makeup session just following the next session. Our cars didn't have as much time to cool, and being it was in the upper 80's, cars started dropping like flies because of the heat, but not the Camaro |
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