05-06-2021, 01:53 PM | #365 | |
corner barstool sitter
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Would you consider Ms. Barra to be cut from the same cloth as a Lee Iacocca or a Bob Lutz? Norm
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05-06-2021, 02:42 PM | #366 | |
Hail to the King baby!
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So trust me, there are a ton of people at GM and Ford (sorry Dodge you have been a foreign owned company for too many years now) that would love to have a Camaro sell well and be working on a future Gen7 with an awesome ICE under the hood. Despite what many think there are a ton of car people left. However, it's not selling now, the architecture it's based on goes away leaving the Camaro an expensive orphan (and a reminder Gen6 was always going to be expensive when they picked a Cadillac architecture to base it on) and GM has stated that they will go all electric. So it's not a matter of if but when. So those same Engineers and Managers that understand this website and the people that love cars are now limited to Corvette. And many years ago the guy that is now Chief Engineer on Corvette was one of many that used to approach me for a job just to work on Corvette. That passion is still there. It's just now funneled into programs that not many here don't appreciate or understand the need for. So that's Barra's role is to bring the company to that next level and do it well. The failure will be to go all electric and not do it better, cheaper and more interesting that the competition. There is a risk that she (and others) are wrong.
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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05-06-2021, 03:06 PM | #367 | |
Drives: 19 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Shock Join Date: Apr 2020
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And while Ferrari doesn't have an SUV, Maserati does(Levante) and that uses a Ferrari engine. Sure you can dump on business and finance people all you want, but the reality remains that the economy of scale is a big factor in making stuff nowadays. The real bottom line is that they shouldn't, say, make an SUV and call it 911. That would be a real slap in the face for enthusiasts. The thing is to strike a balance where you want to be making enough money, but not get too greedy that you start losing identity. Alas, "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
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05-06-2021, 03:06 PM | #368 |
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1. Didn't GM kind of back track on the all in on electric
2. The amount of people who stop for more than just gas on road trips shocked me lol, maybe I am the outlier there. Road trip for me the car only makes 2 stops. Stop 1 is that the Car stops for gas, if you need the bathroom or food you get it while the car is getting gas. Stop 2 is the destination |
05-06-2021, 03:47 PM | #369 | |
SoCal HT5! SD
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You hit the nail on the head though regarding sports car manufacturers needing to build SUV's to make money. Excellent example using Lotus.
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05-06-2021, 03:49 PM | #370 | |
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GM isn’t that lucky. They are still paying for the sins of the Olds 350 Diesel and HT4100 (which oh by the way, Mary Marra was in quality control for the HT4100 engines as a youngster engineer when they were in final development yet she’s the CEO now. As a wise man once said: huh?). People do not and will not buy GM products like lemmings. At least not any more. I love my Camaro and came back to GM after 20 years in Hondas specifically for the Camaro. I’m frankly and quite honestly the customer who’s ass any GM employee should be kissing right now because I swore the company off forever in 1999 after my horrible experience with my 1990 Beretta GT (paint primer down your windshield when it rained was so much fun). But if you don’t build what I want you simply lose me again, capisce? |
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05-06-2021, 03:54 PM | #371 |
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05-06-2021, 04:00 PM | #372 |
Retired from GM
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Little known fact...Beretta was almost the replacement for Camaro. Seeing how well the whole Probe thing went, plans changed.
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05-06-2021, 04:56 PM | #373 | |
Drives: 2019 1ss 1le, blue wrap Join Date: Aug 2017
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wow, did NOT know that, that is truly scary! .... if things went a little differently we'd have both a wrong wheel drive Camaro and Mustang... well probably for a only a little while. |
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05-06-2021, 05:21 PM | #374 |
Hail to the King baby!
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Google the GM80 program if want to see what might have been. Luckily it failed some early tests of the architecture and was shelved.
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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05-06-2021, 05:44 PM | #375 |
corner barstool sitter
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I did catch mention of efforts to lower H-points and rooflines in OP's video link. For me, those would be 'hard' must-haves even with an EV's typically lower CG height - at over 63" tall the Mach E is still several inches too tall for me. Related, I've got a considered opinion or two regarding seating posture vs pedal inputs (hint: chair-like seating is a non-starter for me, and I'm of average height so it's not a head to headliner issue).
Norm
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'08 GT coupe 5M (the occasional track toy)
'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
05-06-2021, 05:50 PM | #376 | |
Drives: 19 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Shock Join Date: Apr 2020
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Quote:
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2019 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE M6 Shock GM Performance Intake and that's it, because driver mods before car mods Past: 2009 Mazda RX-8 GT M6 Velocity Red Mica (Sold) 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 2LT M7 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat (Flood totaled) |
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05-06-2021, 05:55 PM | #377 | |
Drives: LT W/2LT,blue metallic Join Date: Jul 2016
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05-06-2021, 06:27 PM | #378 | |
Hail to the King baby!
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But there is more than the product it’s also how you make your customer feel. Countless articles on how Android phones are technologically ahead of Apple on may counts, yet Apple has half the market. Tesla makes a pretty crappy car and the Model S, the flagship is 10 years old with only updates. In both cases the customers with the “inferior” product feel better, even smarter for their purchase. You are absolutely correct, GM will pay for many years to come for errors made years ago. But here is a perspective on GM’s past. At one point they got so big the government tried to break them. So they started look at making cars off of a basket of parts. Cars weren’t differentiated or styled enough different across the brands. At that point the Japanese and Germans started their inroads and GM started losing sales. And then they needed to find ways to pay for the legacy costs. By the 90s products suffered simply because every program started with a $2,500 penalty to pay for retire healthcare and pensions. And to make a program with that albatross work they had to cut costs even further. A downward death spiral. I remember over hearing an exec say, “if we can just make it 20 years and we start to lose the retirees……..” Long story short you’ve hit on GMs problem. And they will have to overcome that in a big way with the new EVs. GM will have to be bigger, faster, stronger than the competition, tough competition with many having a head start. And frankly you can see GM launching the Lyriq 9 months earlier and to make that happen it’s only the base RWD version with moderate performance just to catch up. Good post.
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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