[ZRacerLE]

... just adding drag is quadratic with speed, that's why acceleration drops so dramatically with speed, hence the factor of weight with speed.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by ZRacerLE

A better way to put it is if you're accelerating half as much then weight becomes half as much of a factor, etc. At 150mph, its effectively horsepower fighting drag. You are barely accelerating. You are probably accelerating at 1/10th of what you would be at 30mph, so weight would be 1/10th as important at 150mph as it would be at 30mph (the 1/10th is a pure guess - too lazy to do the math right now).

That's hard to believe about the hellcat power, but I'll take your word for it. Pretty crazy if so.

I get what you're saying but added weight like from my passenger example, (say with an additional 400lbs of extra passengers) is enough to lose by a couple cars or so from a roll against the same exact car without the passengers.
A bit anecdotal, the 150lbs heavier but more aerodynamic hellcat charger is slightly quicker from a roll than the Hellcat Challenger can be explained by what you're saying. If the Charger were 400lbs heavier the better aero simply wouldn't be enought to overcome the weight.

Many variables on a dyno but Hellcat dynojet typically ranges 620-640 rwh and the ZL1 520-550 rwh... Even so the ZL1 still does very well against the Hellcat until around 130ish it seems.

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by ZRacerLE

Weight is always a factor, but it's less of a factor the faster you are going because drag starts to dominate which slows acceleration. Acceleration is the only reason weight matters, so the slower you are accelerating, the less weight is affecting the race.

Exactly.

L99 - study rolling resistance sometime, have you ever had a physics class? 400 lbs isn't going to make a big difference over 100 mph and that fact is well documented. Horsepower and aerodynamics DOMINATE the equation - period. That big ass wing on the 1LE becomes a liability.

It's why bikes kill cars off the line (if rider knows how to launch - which is a big "if") but as speeds increase high hp cars often start to pull ahead - bike aerodynamics are notoriously poor

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

Exactly.

L99 - study rolling resistance sometime, have you ever had a physics class? 400 lbs isn't going to make as big of a difference over 100 mph

It's why bikes kill cars off the line (if rider knows how to launch - which is a big "if") but as speeds increase high hp cars often start to pull ahead - bike aerodynamics are notoriously poor

Fixed for you.
Ive personally roll raced with a 200lbs passenger(my brother) and was side by side and then ditched the passenger and won by a car. The passnger was the only factor. Dont need a physics class for that.

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

Exactly.

It's why bikes kill cars off the line (if rider knows how to launch - which is a big "if") but as speeds increase high hp cars often start to pull ahead - bike aerodynamics are notoriously poor

Gearing is also a major issue for some bikes at higher speeds.

[ZRacerLE]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

I get what you're saying but added weight like from my passenger example, (say with an additional 400lbs of extra passengers) is enough to lose by a couple cars or so from a roll against the same exact car without the passengers.
A bit anecdotal, the 150lbs heavier but more aerodynamic hellcat charger is slightly quicker from a roll than the Hellcat Challenger can be explained by what you're saying. If the Charger were 400lbs heavier the better aero simply wouldn't be enought to overcome the weight.

Many variables on a dyno but Hellcat dynojet typically ranges 620-640 rwh and the ZL1 520-550 rwh... Even so the ZL1 still does very well against the Hellcat until around 130ish it seems.

Those hellcats do well against my ZLE, but I chalked it up to much higher drag for me. Good thing I'm obsessed with lap times and not roll races, otherwise I'd have to switch platforms.

[ZRacerLE]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

Fixed for you.
Ive personally roll raced with a 200lbs passenger(my brother) and was side by side and then ditched the passenger and won by a car. The passnger was the only factor. Dont need a physics class for that.



Gearing is also a major issue for some bikes at higher speeds.

I believe you on your races. My guess is that car length happened early and then you guys basically locked at the same, slowly increasing speed.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by ZRacerLE

Those hellcats do well against my ZLE, but I chalked it up to much higher drag for me. Good thing I'm obsessed with lap times and not roll races, otherwise I'd have to switch platforms.

I guess a regular ZL1 should have an advantage from a roll over a ZLE due to less drag but the ZLE has less unsprung weight, idk.
Regular ZL1 should have a lot less drag than a Hellcat Challenger, as those cars are essentially bricks in the wind. Ive owned both but never run them against each other from a roll; only seen examples on youtube
Per dragy results 60-130 seem to be very similar. Of course the real test would have be under the same condtions ( DA, fuel quality) It's after 130 the Hellcat seems to start pulling.

[ZRacerLE]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

I guess a regular ZL1 should have an advantage from a roll over a ZLE due to less drag but the ZLE has less unsprung weight, idk.
Regular ZL1 should have a lot less drag than a Hellcat Challenger, as those cars are essentially bricks in the wind. Ive owned both but never run them against each other from a roll; only seen examples on youtube
Per dragy results 60-130 seem to be very similar. Of course the real test would have be under the same condtions ( DA, fuel quality) It's after 130 the Hellcat seems to start pulling.

I'm betting the ZL1 starts moving away from me pretty fast after 130mph. Unsprung weight would help at first, but not for long.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by ZRacerLE

I'm betting the ZL1 starts moving away from me pretty fast after 130mph. Unsprung weight would help at first, but not for long.

Ive only said the Hellcat pulls from the ZL1 after 130 from YouTube vids but there really arent that many clean examples from what ive seen. people tend to lie in their favor on you tube as well. The Hellcat does have a pretty large HP avantage.
I cant perseptually tell a difference between the two up to 150 mph by the sotp from personal experience on the same roads (closed track in Mexico of course), they seem similar. I have noticed the ZL1 is affected by heat a lot more and becomes noticably more slugglish in high heat and humidity than the hellcat.

[ZRacerLE]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

Ive only said the Hellcat pulls from the ZL1 after 130 from YouTube vids but there really arent that many clean examples from what ive seen. people tend to lie in their favor on you tube as well. The Hellcat does have a pretty large HP avantage.
I cant perseptually tell a difference between the two up to 150 mph by the sotp from personal experience on the same roads (closed track in Mexico of course), they seem similar. I have noticed the ZL1 is affected by heat a lot more and becomes noticably more slugglish in high heat and humidity than the hellcat.

Interesting about the effect of heat and humidity on the zl1 with all the cooling it has. Maybe it's a blower size issue?

[JasonGofast]

Everytime people talk about weight in terms of drag racing, I always think of the 4400lb Bugatti that is only out accelerated by the lighter Koenigsegg.

The C8 is a dig monster. Stock for stock on anything but a super prepped strip the C8 will beat the C7Z off the line everytime. From a roll I'd imagine 40 and up the C7Z will never lose. Mid engine with a DCT is too good for digs.

The ZL1 will beat a C8 from a roll too. Also a Hellcat. I've rolled race quite a few Hellcats and I've pulled on every single one. They only stop getting gapped around 130-140ish and then they slowly start catching up. It's really crazy to be honest. If it wasn't for the supercharer whine I wouldn't even know I was racing a Hellcat those boats are so slow for their power. I think it's more than just a weight thing because look at the GT500. Shit is barely lighter than a Hellcat but will put a bus on it.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by ZRacerLE

Interesting about the effect of heat and humidity on the zl1 with all the cooling it has. Maybe it's a blower size issue?

Have you (or others) noticed clear degraded performance as well under hot/humid conditions?

With 11 heat exchangers this shouldn't be an issue. Engine temps don't seem to be an issue but the smaller TVS/roots style blowers have been known to be prone to heat soak.. Could be a higher IAT issue as well but I haven't monitored mine in the ZL1.

[ZRacerLE]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

Have you (or others) noticed clear degraded performance as well under hot/humid conditions?

With 11 heat exchangers this shouldn't be an issue. Engine temps don't seem to be an issue but the smaller TVS/roots style blowers have been known to be prone to heat soak.. Could be a higher IAT issue as well but I haven't monitored mine in the ZL1.

I haven't while road racing in Houston this summer. My lap times and end of straight speeds are consistent throughout the day if not faster due to getting the car dialed in throughout the day.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by Revalot

The Porsche owner might just be looking for a ZL1 in a couple of days ! Imagine paying double or quadruple for a car, And some good old America muscle/hyper car now puts you on blast ! Chevy did a great job ! I passed a 2019 ZR1 today on the opposite side of the highway today, He stared pretty hard at my ZL1 1le ! I thought yes it's me buddy, I payed half of what you paid and I'm only 105 hp down, plus I look better ! LOL!!!!

I love my SS 1LE and what GM did with the Camaro, but your comment is purely on performance numbers.

There is SOOO much more that makes a Porsche a Porsche. The devil is in the details & service.