[Hops]

Originally Posted by Frankie18SS

I'm absolutely on board with an all electric Camaro. Honestly, my biggest fear isn't the acceleration, they've proven that. My biggest fear is the weight will make it handle like crap. We finally got a Camaro that can be a track killer, don't want to see that go away now.
.

Absolutely!!! A tesla model 3 battery weighs 1000lbs+ according to my googling, a lt1 engine is 465lbs... well i guess you would have to add cooling, fuel and maybe transmission to make a apples to apples comparison!
But I read there's a trend is of increasing energy density for Li-ion batteries.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Xaxas

Nope.

I support the idea of electric vehicles for soccer mom boxes, exonoboxes and luxury vehicles, but they are inherently the antithesis of performance vehicles for the general enthusiast who likes to tinker with their car.

I'm a software developer so I spend all my day coding on my computer, I don't want fancy gadgets and systems in my car because that I can change and more often than not crappy developers are strangled by company demands leading to even worse software that only has to work at a surface level, now imagine if your car is like this, instead of modifying an engine all you do you change the electric motor and most of the job you do it in a computer, hell no, I like tinkering with cars because it's an activity I have control over, if I change a part I can have a pretty accurate guess of how it will affect the car because it's mechanical, and before you mention tuning, it is not at all the same as programming as you are working within the parameters that the parameters of the car ECU and other computers.

This is not to mention that sound and shaking are part of the experience, you are inside a living dragon that breathes fire and it responds to your command, it has a temper and is unique on their own, and you can make them even more unique, more viscous, do you think there will be iconic and loved electric motors like we have engines, say LS/small block, coyote, HEMI, Porsche flat 6, flat plane supercar V8/10/12?

Also, if you touch a hot engine, you might get a nasty burn at worst for a week or 2, but I hope you've earned a lot of favor with the deity you decide to pray to should you touch an electric cars system, and they will only get more powerful in the future.

Exactly. Every word is truth. Grown men shed tears at the sound of a real Hemi. An air cooled Porsche flat six has a natural melody at 6500 rpm.

I can just see a couple guys in the back yard with a few beers programming their Tesla to go faster.

No, no I can’t.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I was just saying people need to not be so against alternate powertrains because without them the cars like this will cease to exist

Perhaps you should review what's been happening in other segments of the car market over the years, specifically with respect to powertrain combinations in sedans. Even the six cylinder trims are getting fewer and farther between. Manual transmissions, nearly extinct. But plenty of turbos, automatics, and CVTs on the ICE side, plus hybrids and BEVs. The traditional enthusiast has been almost completely squeezed out by the market domination of the alternates.


Norm

[gpskinzhut]

Show me a production Camaro and I'll take it for a spin and see if I like it. Engine noises are neat, but I imagine there's something different in hearing clear road engagement when pushing the car. I'm curious.

What I'd really like to see someone start bringing to market are retrofit EV kits for vintage cars. I'd pick up a shell of a 3rd gen, pop a Tesla power train into it and see how much of a pretzel I can turn it into.

[nicktechla]

Originally Posted by gpskinzhut

Show me a production Camaro and I'll take it for a spin and see if I like it. Engine noises are neat, but I imagine there's something different in hearing clear road engagement when pushing the car. I'm curious.

What I'd really like to see someone start bringing to market are retrofit EV kits for vintage cars. I'd pick up a shell of a 3rd gen, pop a Tesla power train into it and see how much of a pretzel I can turn it into.

These guys could do it for you

https://evwest.com/

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Perhaps you should review what's been happening in other segments of the car market over the years, specifically with respect to powertrain combinations in sedans. Even the six cylinder trims are getting fewer and farther between. Manual transmissions, nearly extinct. But plenty of turbos, automatics, and CVTs on the ICE side, plus hybrids and BEVs. The traditional enthusiast has been almost completely squeezed out by the market domination of the alternates.


Norm

Yeah that is also true

[gpskinzhut]

Originally Posted by nicktechla

These guys could do it for you

https://evwest.com/

SHUT YOUR FACE... now I have to go find a VW Beetle... or a Bradley GT

[nicktechla]

Originally Posted by gpskinzhut

SHUT YOUR FACE... now I have to go find a VW Beetle... or a Bradley GT

haha did you see the M3 they built? It's savage af.

https://youtu.be/I89llX3HUWc
https://youtu.be/pHaqiWcWSIc

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Number 3

So the question is an electric Camaro or no Camaro at all? And for the sake of argument the electric Camaro would drive and handle like a Camaro without the noise. And yes, there are many that would consider than an abomination. For me, it's not the propulsion system or number of cylinders that define the Camaro. I've driven many, many 4 and 6 cylinder Camaros and they were still Camaros.

For the sake of argument, an electric Camaro would not drive and handle like an ICE Camaro without the noise. There's too much difference in the torque curves, which goes to too much difference in the need for shifting of any kind (and conscious appreciation for the somewhat greater driver involvement demanded with a conventional MT).

Yeah, I guess that's a pretty hardcore MT-only attitude, but I'm not sure that anybody who's at least OK with driving an AT car truly gets that on a gut-level. Or would sense the same feeling of abandonment should the MT option go away completely.


I know right now that I'd buy a NA V6 MT Camaro before I'd buy a Camaro in either V8 AT, turbo-4, or EV trim.


Norm

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by closs2sx

when its the only thing that's available maybe until then its internal combustion and manual trans

Yeah pretty much. I will hold onto MT ICE cars until EVs mature and becomes affordable and fun.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Perhaps you should review what's been happening in other segments of the car market over the years, specifically with respect to powertrain combinations in sedans. Even the six cylinder trims are getting fewer and farther between. Manual transmissions, nearly extinct. But plenty of turbos, automatics, and CVTs on the ICE side, plus hybrids and BEVs. The traditional enthusiast has been almost completely squeezed out by the market domination of the alternates.





Norm

The issue is that not a lot of enthusiasts can put money where their mouth is. If they aren't buying new sports cars, the manufacturers will naturally shift away from them. They might make it for the brand image and such, but there is a point even that becomes invalid.

Corporations follow money. That's how they work. If sports cars make them money like SUVs do, they will pump them out like no tomorrow.

Sent from toaster or something

[gpskinzhut]

Originally Posted by nicktechla

haha did you see the M3 they built? It's savage af.

https://youtu.be/I89llX3HUWc
https://youtu.be/pHaqiWcWSIc

I have now... that's fantastic, lol. Especially the meowing horn

[Xaxas]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Yeah pretty much. I will hold onto MT ICE cars until EVs mature and becomes affordable and fun.



The issue is that not a lot of enthusiasts can put money where their mouth is. If they aren't buying new sports cars, the manufacturers will naturally shift away from them. They might make it for the brand image and such, but there is a point even that becomes invalid.

Corporations follow money. That's how they work. If sports cars make them money like SUVs do, they will pump them out like no tomorrow.

Sent from toaster or something

Enthusiasts do put the money where their mouth is, problem is that they're a really small % of sales, it's the general public that dictates the sales, people buying base LS/LT1 cars with autos because "they're cool" and those people are going for SUVs no matter how expensive they are because they feel comfortable and safe, for them, putting the pedal down and feeling the instant torque of an electric motor is as much fun they'll want/need in a car.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Xaxas

Enthusiasts do put the money where their mouth is, problem is that they're a really small % of sales, it's the general public that dictates the sales, people buying base LS/LT1 cars with autos because "they're cool" and those people are going for SUVs no matter how expensive they are because they feel comfortable and safe, for them, putting the pedal down and feeling the instant torque of an electric motor is as much fun they'll want/need in a car.

You are right. In the end sports cars don't really make money and so manufacturers have to face that fact. We do, too.

I actually have nothing against EVs, but in my use case it doesn't make much sense. If I feel cheap and don't want to drive, I can pick up a bicycle and cycle to places that are fairly close to me. I get some exercise, I don't have to worry about parking, no insurance to pay, etc. I think it makes sense to enjoy the fun ICE cars over buying an "econo" EV that's about as expensive. I will get an EV once they are as cheap as a Corolla, and hopefully there are still fun ICE cars around.

Sent from toaster or something