[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

GM doesn’t brag about ATP. GM does grade vehicle executive performance / compensation with ATP as a factor. GM actually does not publicly discuss ATP any more than they discuss future products. I’ve mentioned it more than a few times, so therein may lie the confusion

Maybe brag wasn't the right word, but they do mention ATP overall in their quarterly reports.

Maybe ATP just gets tossed around here to much lol

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Maybe brag wasn't the right word, but they do mention ATP overall in their quarterly reports.

Maybe ATP just gets tossed around here to much lol

It hasn't been shown here since we lost MEDISIN as a contributor.

I'm sure high Camaro ATP still holds true but we no longer have access to the data

[BlaqWhole]

Going back to visibility. The very first time I sat in a 6th Gen Camaro was at a local dealership and it was a 1SS. I remember texting a good friend and telling him that I was disappointed in how bad the visibility was. However, like I said, all that vanished when I got a text asking me if I was interested in the ZL1. The words "650 HP" and "the Z06's LT4 engine" kinda made all thoughts of visibility disappear. When I signed for my ZL1 I took a 1SS M6 trans on a test drive just for shits and giggles. I told the salesman that I never actually drove a 6th Gen before and I wanted to see how it was. Miraculously the visibility that I complained about a year and a half prior to that day started to seem like an exaggeration. However it was fortuitous for me because if I did not have that initial impression of the 6th Gen then I would have bought a 16 SS and would not have been able to get the 17 ZL1. So it worked out in my favor.

Since owning my car I'll say that the visibility has not been an issue even once. I love the low roof line because it feels closed off to the rest of the world. And I love the sleek look. So all the talk and complaints about the visibility to me is nothing but an initial impression that disappears...or it really isn't an issue at all.

[Bosse'sBoss]

Visibility is not an issue from me. My only headache is when I approach ATM machines, I opt to steep out of the car better because the angle to reach the machine is very uncomfortable for me. Don't like the central console opening design, the small rear cellular charging station design is useless, but the rest of the car is grest, it compensates for those minor issues. Great work GM.

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Going back to visibility. The very first time I sat in a 6th Gen Camaro was at a local dealership and it was a 1SS. I remember texting a good friend and telling him that I was disappointed in how bad the visibility was. However, like I said, all that vanished when I got a text asking me if I was interested in the ZL1. The words "650 HP" and "the Z06's LT4 engine" kinda made all thoughts of visibility disappear. When I signed for my ZL1 I took a 1SS M6 trans on a test drive just for shits and giggles. I told the salesman that I never actually drove a 6th Gen before and I wanted to see how it was. Miraculously the visibility that I complained about a year and a half prior to that day started to seem like an exaggeration. However it was fortuitous for me because if I did not have that initial impression of the 6th Gen then I would have bought a 16 SS and would not have been able to get the 17 ZL1. So it worked out in my favor.

Since owning my car I'll say that the visibility has not been an issue even once. I love the low roof line because it feels closed off to the rest of the world. And I love the sleek look. So all the talk and complaints about the visibility to me is nothing but an initial impression that disappears...or it really isn't an issue at all.

Again, it’s not much an issue from a practical standpoint

It’s just an issue from an driving experience perspective. You’re just used to it now. Yeah the camaro is still awesome to drive, but it’d be a lot better with more visibility.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

Again, it’s not much an issue from a practical standpoint

It’s just an issue from an driving experience perspective. You’re just used to it now. Yeah the camaro is still awesome to drive, but it’d be a lot better with more visibility.

I would agree with you at any moment in time up until the morning I got the text from my buddy telling me about the ZL1. AFter that point I became a full fledged Camaro fanboy. So I have to disagree. I would not change a thing on this car as far as visibility is concerned.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I would agree with you at any moment in time up until the morning I got the text from my buddy telling me about the ZL1. AFter that point I became a full fledged Camaro fanboy. So I have to disagree. I would not change a thing on this car as far as visibility is concerned.

Blaq is at it again

But seriously, this is a near non-issue, I wasn't a fanboy when first driving the 6th gen and it didn't bother me at all. Yeah, I said one needed to adapt to this car's characteristics, but it's pretty much the same thing with every car. Took me about 10-15 minutes and then all was fine with the world again.

I still remember the very first time I drove a 3-row midsize SUV, checking visibility in the rearview mirror and thinking "WTH, am I looking down a tunnel? oh, it's the car, okay"...

[TheRealJA105]

Ah, visibility. I'll just say that when i test drove a C7 while i still had my C5Z i was like holy shit you can't see out of this thing at all! Now compare that to trading the Hellcat in on the Camaro and I don't think the visibility in the Challenger was much better than the Camaro at all.

[oldman]

I went from a Challenger to a 6th gen, the Challenger has much better all-around vision and seating comfort. It just does.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Blaq is at it again

But seriously, this is a near non-issue, I wasn't a fanboy when first driving the 6th gen and it didn't bother me at all. Yeah, I said one needed to adapt to this car's characteristics, but it's pretty much the same thing with every car. Took me about 10-15 minutes and then all was fine with the world again.

I still remember the very first time I drove a 3-row midsize SUV, checking visibility in the rearview mirror and thinking "WTH, am I looking down a tunnel? oh, it's the car, okay"...

After the ZL1 I honestly feel that I was unnecessarily harsh on the 6th Gen in my initial criticisms. I seriously drive this car at all hours of the day and night and weave in and out of traffic and I have no issues with it at all. I drove it 40 miles down the GSP the other day with the sun visor down and I didn't even realize it. And not for nothing, that compact size of the ZL1 is the reason why it isn't 4200 pounds and overheats the brakes or runs the tires down after one lap and why it has a much better weight distribution that the competition. All of that contributes to why it trounced the GT500 around a track. I'll take it!!

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by oldman

I went from a Challenger to a 6th gen, the Challenger has much better all-around vision and seating comfort. It just does.

Interior is better in the Challenger for sure. The only visibility that concerns me in any car is the blind spots and the Challenger is not any better than the Camaro. The window lines are lower in the Challenger, big whoop, you can see out the high side windows of the Camaro just fine.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Interior is better in the Challenger for sure. The only visibility that concerns me in any car is the blind spots and the Challenger is not any better than the Camaro. The window lines are lower in the Challenger, big whoop, you can see out the high side windows of the Camaro just fine.

Agreed, its perceived visibity at this point is not as bad as its actual visibility. I regularly drive a 19 gt, and while you can see more out of it as it has a larger greenhouse area in general, the points of concern are about the same as the camaros.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Agreed, its perceived visibity at this point is not as bad as its actual visibility. I regularly drive a 19 gt, and while you can see more out of it as it has a larger greenhouse area in general, the points of concern are about the same as the camaros.

It might not be as bad as terrible, but it ain't good or even mediocre either. I have 6 solid years in a Challenger as a DD, and then went to a 6th gen. The Challenger is easier to drive and it is easier to see of the wider, taller and if we are talking about the side view, longer windows. The side mirrors were also bigger and seem to be higher mounted. I could also put the seat pretty high without my head hitting to roof liner and visibility got even better. I agree the Camaro is OK, the visibility is not so bad it is a constant worry... agree. But sorry I DD them both for long periods of time, the Challenger is much easier to see out of. Put it this way, I'd let my teenage son DD a Challenger to school, but not the 6th gen, he already makes mistakes on a 4 door civic. It would be my opinion the Camaro could use the bigger two-part Mustang side view mirrors. So this is a subjective observation, actual objective measurements would show IMO of course the Camaro has many and large blind spots, which are difficult to observe with smallish side mirrors. I'll only add in one caveat, I'm retired and now drive the wife's van too much... all windows.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by oldman

It might not be as bad as terrible, but it ain't good or even mediocre either. I have 6 solid years in a Challenger as a DD, and then went to a 6th gen. The Challenger is easier to drive and it is easier to see of the wider, taller and if we are talking about the side view, longer windows. The side mirrors were also bigger and seem to be higher mounted. I could also put the seat pretty high without my head hitting to roof liner and visibility got even better. I agree the Camaro is OK, the visibility is not so bad it is a constant worry... agree. But sorry I DD them both for long periods of time, the Challenger is much easier to see out of. Put it this way, I'd let my teenage son DD a Challenger to school, but not the 6th gen, he already makes mistakes on a 4 door civic. It would be my opinion the Camaro could use the bigger two-part Mustang side view mirrors. So this is a subjective observation, actual objective measurements would show IMO of course the Camaro has many and large blind spots, which are difficult to observe with smallish side mirrors. I'll only add in one caveat, I'm retired and now drive the wife's van too much... all windows.

The EU/AS model has large, SUV style side mirrors with integrated turn signals, see a couple photos in this thread: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=554936

I'm not sure if these are pin compatible with our US model, unfortunately, but there is probably a way to install them if one wants more glass.