[90503]

The advocates for EVs will always cherry-pick a few stats to try and smooth over and avoid admitting all the real world problems that hopefully the duped EV buying customers will not be aware of.

Topics of charging-time, range, highway vs city "MPG" or strictly highway miles are usually avoided like the plague and we are advised, just to wait, the future is coming, all is well, nothing to see here, just become a fan and buy one.

...and there will be no savings derived from them. Miles driven will be taxed, electricity used to charge them will become highly taxed. Dollars saved from not buying gas will be eaten up in a heart-beat by the state and fed tax bureaucracy. Technology is available that could even limit the amount of time you are allowed to spend on the road. (Use public transportation when they deem it appropriate). You will not see any type of economy. Not to mention the whole EV industry is dependent on government subsidies and rebates that will not be around forever. "Hands-Free Driving" will usher in government control of your car as a necessary safety move.

No thanks. It's not just the power source, it's Big Brother's control of your transportation that is the real goal of EVs. Think of On-Star on steroids.

EVs are a gargantuan boon-doggle in the making.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 90503

The advocates for EVs will always cherry-pick a few stats to try and smooth over and avoid admitting all the real world problems that hopefully the duped EV buying customers will not be aware of.

Topics of charging-time, range, highway vs city "MPG" or strictly highway miles are usually avoided like the plague and we are advised, just to wait, the future is coming, all is well, nothing to see here, just become a fan and buy one.

...and there will be no savings derived from them. Miles driven will be taxed, electricity used to charge them will become highly taxed. Dollars saved from not buying gas will be eaten up in a heart-beat by the state and fed tax bureaucracy. Technology is available that could even limit the amount of time you are allowed to spend on the road. (Use public transportation when they deem it appropriate). You will not see any type of economy. Not to mention the whole EV industry is dependent on government subsidies and rebates that will not be around forever. "Hands-Free Driving" will usher in government control of your car as a necessary safety move.

No thanks. It's not just the power source, it's Big Brother's control of your transportation that is the real goal of EVs. Think of On-Star on steroids.

EVs are a gargantuan boon-doggle in the making.

LOL you’re afraid of OnStar. If that is true I totally understand your post.........don’t agree with any of it but understand where you’re coming from.

By the way, having worked with OnStar and it’s data (nothing to be afraid of) you should be so afraid of your phone you keep it in a lead box.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 90503

The advocates for EVs will always cherry-pick a few stats to try and smooth over and avoid admitting all the real world problems that hopefully the duped EV buying customers will not be aware of.

Topics of charging-time, range, highway vs city "MPG" or strictly highway miles are usually avoided like the plague and we are advised, just to wait, the future is coming, all is well, nothing to see here, just become a fan and buy one.

...and there will be no savings derived from them. Miles driven will be taxed, electricity used to charge them will become highly taxed. Dollars saved from not buying gas will be eaten up in a heart-beat by the state and fed tax bureaucracy. Technology is available that could even limit the amount of time you are allowed to spend on the road. (Use public transportation when they deem it appropriate). You will not see any type of economy. Not to mention the whole EV industry is dependent on government subsidies and rebates that will not be around forever. "Hands-Free Driving" will usher in government control of your car as a necessary safety move.

No thanks. It's not just the power source, it's Big Brother's control of your transportation that is the real goal of EVs. Think of On-Star on steroids.

EVs are a gargantuan boon-doggle in the making.

LOL you’re afraid of OnStar. If hat is true I totally understand your post.........don’t agree with any of it but understand where you’re coming from.

By the way, having worked with OnStar and it’s data nothing to be afraid of) you should be so afraid of your phone you keep it in a lead box.

And the point of EVs isn’t saving money, it’s simply emissions, and in many comparisons a better propulsion solution. The last hang up is simply charging time and infrastructure.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Number 3

LOL you’re afraid of OnStar. If hat is true I totally understand your post.........don’t agree with any of it but understand where you’re coming from.

By the way, having worked with OnStar and it’s data nothing to be afraid of) you should be so afraid of your phone you keep it in a lead box.

And the point of EVs isn’t saving money, it’s simply emissions, and in many comparisons a better propulsion solution. The last hang up is simply charging time and infrastructure.

I like emissions. Seriously. Love old cars that smell bad, burn oil, run rich, and make noise.

It’s part of America. I learned to work on cars from my uncle, who could tune an engine perfectly just by sniffing and listening.

I have so much admiration and respect for people like him who are that skilled in a trade. Trades are the backbone of America, and electric cars don’t need a skilled mechanic. Just a laptop. That’s not skill.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Number 3

LOL you’re afraid of OnStar. If hat is true I totally understand your post.........don’t agree with any of it but understand where you’re coming from.

By the way, having worked with OnStar and it’s data nothing to be afraid of

That may be true today (for the most part, anyway). But where this whole business of telematics and IoT could go would make OnStar in its current state of consumer availability look like a landline by comparison.

For a mfr (or other entity) to remotely tinker with your car and its performance capabilities is likely easier when the vehicle is all-electric. No emissions recertification process, for one thing.

And the point of EVs isn’t saving money, it’s simply emissions, and in many comparisons a better propulsion solution. The last hang up is simply charging time and infrastructure.

The last functional hang-up, perhaps . . .

On the matter of EVs not being about saving money, that could be a real sticking point for people on fixed income. Paying more for comparable transportation that still has restrictions on range and recharging just doesn't make sense.

I have to wonder how significantly the need to run heat when the temperatures are well below freezing or A/C at 100°+ strictly off battery power affects range. It's definitely a consideration for ICE start-stop systems.


Norm

[Rayvan]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Other than the location of chargers, you might want to check the math, especially limiting yourself to 85. Like I said, I’d like to see it.

Keep in mind, I use the Navigator in this hypothetical race, because it's the slowest vehicle I own, and the most thirsty (takes the longest to gas up). *But I'm making a point here. Normally for Hockey tournaments, I'd use my much more efficient four door Benz, with it's much smaller gas tank and since it's a small four-door, it's the same size, and type of car as the Porsche EV.

Just watched the new Jay Leno's garage episode, where they actually have an engineer from Porsche accompany. He and Jay talk about the new electric car in-depth. Seems 200 miles is the current range, and this is, as you know best-case (which is likely about 65-70 MPH, and no a/c and no heat).
Anyway, the Porsche guy said 22 minutes from 5% to 80%, if you get to use a 800 Volt charging system (if one actually exists on your route), and if the battery isn't too hot, or too cold.
Seems like it would very likely need two stops to go 450 miles (with no AC at 60-70 mph). Lots of ifs, in real life. My Benz can do the 450 miles in one hop, if I stick to 75 mph.

I feel pretty confident in my math, that I'd kill the advanced Porsche even in my slowest, thirstiest vehicle.

*My point is, for longer journeys, even the most advanced EV you can buy seems pretty far behind in the real world.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Rayvan

Keep in mind, I use the Navigator in this hypothetical race, because it's the slowest vehicle I own, and the most thirsty (takes the longest to gas up). *But I'm making a point here. Normally for Hockey tournaments, I'd use my much more efficient four door Benz, with it's much smaller gas tank and since it's a small four-door, it's the same size, and type of car as the Porsche EV.

Just watched the new Jay Leno's garage episode, where they actually have an engineer from Porsche accompany. He and Jay talk about the new electric car in-depth. Seems 200 miles is the current range, and this is, as you know best-case (which is likely about 65-70 MPH, and no a/c and no heat).
Anyway, the Porsche guy said 22 minutes from 5% to 80%, if you get to use a 800 Volt charging system (if one actually exists on your route), and if the battery isn't too hot, or too cold.
Seems like it would very likely need two stops to go 450 miles (with no AC at 60-70 mph). Lots of ifs, in real life. My Benz can do the 450 miles in one hop, if I stick to 75 mph.

I feel pretty confident in my math, that I'd kill the advanced Porsche even in my slowest, thirstiest vehicle.

*My point is, for longer journeys, even the most advanced EV you can buy seems pretty far behind in the real world.

Sorry I misunderstood. You said race so I assumed no speed limit. So with the Taycan having a top speed of 160, it is a different "race" than you are suggesting.

Also, just for the discussion, Porsche has claimed and a recent comparison confirmed, the Taycan has a real world range much closer to in the upper 200s. It just apparently sucks on the EPA schedule.

[Realist]

I learned to never say never but honestly not too interested in EV’s at this point. If I could charge just as quick, just as convenient as gas station locations all over, have similar driving distance and performance for a similar price as my ZL1 then I may come around. But I don’t want our Fed Gov implementing any type of national charging station or supplementing it in any way.

How much $’s for a loaded 1000hp EV Camaro, how much would an EV Camaro be with similar performance of my ZL1 with 650hp? How far will it go on a charge if driven a constant 80mph? Gonna be interesting to see the out the door price of a fully loaded EV 1000hp GMC Hummer or Camaro if they make it.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Realist

I learned to never say never but honestly not too interested in EV’s at this point. If I could charge just as quick, just as convenient as gas station locations all over, have similar driving distance and performance for a similar price as my ZL1 then I may come around. But I don’t want our Fed Gov implementing any type of national charging station or supplementing it in any way.

How much $’s for a loaded 1000hp EV Camaro, how much would an EV Camaro be with similar performance of my ZL1 with 650hp? How far will it go on a charge if driven a constant 80mph? Gonna be interesting to see the out the door price of a fully loaded EV 1000hp GMC Hummer or Camaro if they make it.

Fully agree on not subsidizing charging stations. I'm dead set against the $7,500 tax credit as well, but neither Tesla or GM products are eligible for that now.

However, everything in your first paragraph has a ton of money behind making it a reality.

I a very real sense, EVs already have the same range. My LaCrosse has a small tank so for my commute I'm filling up every 250 to 275 miles. And other than my having the same hang up as you on recharging, an EV would be perfect for 99% of my driving. But they haven't won me over......yet.

Cost is the deal. Right now you can buy an AWD Model 3 for about the price of a ZL1 and for a short bit it would be a faster car. How much GM charges for the GMC Hummer will be telling. They've stated there will be multiple powertrain configurations up to a 3 motor.

But I learned a little bit more about Tesla's Ludicrous Mode in the recent article comparing a Model S and Taycan. The Model S is good for about 2 ro 3 runs and then it isn't much faster than my LaCrosse LOL. The Taycan, as Porsche promised will do it run after run after run.

[Gunkk]

Would 1,000 HP change your mind about an EV Camaro?

For 1000 ft-lbs of torque and all wheel drive, I'm in!

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Trades are the backbone of America, and electric cars don’t need a skilled mechanic. Just a laptop. That’s not skill.

Disagree, you do need a mechanic/engineer skills to work on an EV. EVs have different electrical systems, battery coolant management, Etc. These are just new sets of skills. Adapt or be left behind.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Realist

I learned to never say never but honestly not too interested in EV’s at this point. If I could charge just as quick, just as convenient as gas station locations all over, have similar driving distance and performance for a similar price as my ZL1 then I may come around. But I don’t want our Fed Gov implementing any type of national charging station or supplementing it in any way.

How much $’s for a loaded 1000hp EV Camaro, how much would an EV Camaro be with similar performance of my ZL1 with 650hp? How far will it go on a charge if driven a constant 80mph? Gonna be interesting to see the out the door price of a fully loaded EV 1000hp GMC Hummer or Camaro if they make it.

I own a Tesla Model 3 Performance, which has pretty similar performance to the ZL1. The Tesla is a lot quicker down low (0-60mph in 3.0 consistently) and from 30-70mph but the 1/4 mi times would be about the same. They are obviously very different cars as one is a 4 door sedan vs. a sports coupe, however they both weight about the same at 4000lbs. The ZL1 has much better handling and adaptive suspension. They both have a Track Mode. Both have Brembo brakes.

The Tesla is a much better daily driver. Things like single pedal driving with regen and brake hold make daily driving in traffic less annoying. Traffic aware cruise control with auto steer reduces fatigue on highway driving.

Where the ZL1 makes great noises the Tesla entertains with its instant torque. I have never owned a car that will put you back in the seat like this one. It is the main event for us enthusiasts.

The tech in the Tesla is a quantum leap over traditional cars. This is the game changer IMO. The traditional automakers need to ditch the crappy infotainment and typical supply chain electronics and build next gen systems. This is what Tesla did. They have the software that interfaces and ties all the systems together with the ability to update it over the air with a software update. For example, one day I had no one pedal driving and then the next update here is the new feature. Same with Netflix, YouTube, Hulu theater apps. Then I got 2 5% power increases OTA. The performance dropped from 3.5 0-60 to 3.0 and 1/4 mile from 11.8 to 11.5 sec.

As for living with the car. I never supercharge it. I just plug it in at night and have a full tank so to speak every morning. A full charge is good for 300 miles but real world depends on how you drive it. ICE based vehicles are still better for range but with the supercharging network you can easily make trips. The computer plans it all out for you, tells you where to stop, how long to charge, what you charge percentage will be when you get there, etc.

[19coupe]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Check out this article from Detroit Free Press:

1,000-hp GMC Hummer electric SUV to roll out of Detroit assembly plant in 2021

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...it/4614774002/

0-60 in 3 seconds.........in a truck.

No

[USAFS197]

Absolutely. I have nothing against the advent of EV's. I don't cling to the past too much and I'm certainly not overly nostalgic. The cars we have on the road today will still be on the road but, slow replaced by hybrid and EV's. So it's not like we are actually losing anything other than the potential for new(er) internal combustion engines.

But, I will go so far as to say that I have no need for a truck, nor do I have any desire for a 1000hp anything. Neither of those prospects are appealing to me. But it doesn't stop me from rooting for this vehicle and what it represents.

It's hard to go forward when you keep holding yourself back with old ideals.