[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Here’s what I think in general regarding the six cars. Separating them like this: ZL1 vs GT500 vs C8 Z51 / ZLE vs CFTP vs C8 Z06

0 - 60:
GT500 vs ZL1: GT500 by 0.2 - 0.4s
GT500 vs C8 Z51: Z51 by 0.5s
CFTP vs ZLE: CFTP by 0.2 - 0.4s
CFTP vs C8 Z06: Z06 by 0.6s

Quarter Mile:
GT500 vs ZL1: GT500 by 0.1 - 0.3s
GT500 vs C8 Z51: Dead even, better trap for GT500
CFTP vs ZLE: CFTP by 0.1 - 0.3s
CFTP vs Z06: Z06 by 0.5s

”Technical” Road Course:
GT500 vs ZL1: Driver’s race, slight edge to GT500 same driver same day
GT500 vs C8 Z51: Driver’s race, edge to Z51 same driver same day
CFTP vs ZLE: Driver’s race, edge to ZLE A10, same driver same day. M6 probably trails CFTP
CFTP vs C8 Z06: I expect a clear win for Z06

”Long” Road Course:
GT500 vs ZL1: Clear win for GT500
GT500 vs C8 Z51: Close win for GT500
CFTP vs ZLE: Clear win for CFTP
CFTP vs C8 Z06: Clear win for Z06

I think you are spot on.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Here’s what I think in general regarding the six cars. Separating them like this: ZL1 vs GT500 vs C8 Z51 / ZLE vs CFTP vs C8 Z06

0 - 60:
GT500 vs ZL1: GT500 by 0.2 - 0.4s
GT500 vs C8 Z51: Z51 by 0.5s
CFTP vs ZLE: CFTP by 0.2 - 0.4s
CFTP vs C8 Z06: Z06 by 0.6s

Quarter Mile:
GT500 vs ZL1: GT500 by 0.1 - 0.3s
GT500 vs C8 Z51: Dead even, better trap for GT500
CFTP vs ZLE: CFTP by 0.1 - 0.3s
CFTP vs Z06: Z06 by 0.5s

”Technical” Road Course:
GT500 vs ZL1: Driver’s race, slight edge to GT500 same driver same day
GT500 vs C8 Z51: Driver’s race, edge to Z51 same driver same day
CFTP vs ZLE: Driver’s race, edge to ZLE A10, same driver same day. M6 probably trails CFTP
CFTP vs C8 Z06: I expect a clear win for Z06

”Long” Road Course:
GT500 vs ZL1: Clear win for GT500
GT500 vs C8 Z51: Close win for GT500
CFTP vs ZLE: Clear win for CFTP
CFTP vs C8 Z06: Clear win for Z06

I actually expect the advantage to be more on the ZL1 and ZLE side on any road course. Even if the course has some long straights it isn't like the ZL1 is a slouch in a straight line. Remember, it has 10 gears, downshifts instantly, and is instantly in boost. Coming out from a corner the GT500 will not only have to catch up but it will also have to get ahead and do all that before the next corner. And then it'll have to remain ahead. I don't think it will be able to accomplish all that against the ZLE. Basically I think the ZLE will be ahead the majority of the race. Even if it does the question will remain on whether it is worth the $94K as opposed to a $70K ZLE.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

I believe that’s what I said? “Not gonna happen”. As we’re both painfully aware. I’m just trying to save GT500 guy some time. And wasted key strokes.

Then stop asking. If I had time to waste it wouldn't be by trying to prove anything to someone like yourself. You already bet me that I didn't own the cars in my pic to which I took your bet and you immediately backed off and tried to change it. So why would I waste any time racing you. I could go out, buy a dedicated race car, build it, race you, walk you, and after all that you'd pop up some excuse or BS to get out of paying up like you already did. Plus you have nothing worth me racing anyway. What do you have? A 20+ year old GT that's been fully gutted and modded but can't even do better than a 9? LOL!! There are DDs out there that can do 9s. What a joke.

And your pal is gone. So you don't have to worry about him. LOL!!

Originally Posted by hotlap

That happened fast.

Regrettably. I missed it.

Attachment 1012204

LOL, I think we all saw that coming from a long way off, lol!! Funny thing is he was a member here for 6 years, the GT500 comes out, and all of a sudden he becomes a troll. Gotta love it.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Name calling is a good way to get your ass booted. Keep it up pal.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You do realize that not one of us takes you seriously and that we all think you're nothing more than a joke don't you? You're the next Ethanolic and he was the next whatever the name of the troll before him that got banned and you'll most likely be getting your behind kicked off here soon. So there is no need to take you up on anything because you won't be here much longer anyway. You're a ricer. Your posts have the maturity of a spoiled 18 year old. Most likely your daddy is buying the GT500, not you. Or you're buying it but you live at your parent's house. You don't matter around here. Your existence here is temporary and once you're gone we won't even remember who you were. Even in the off chance that someone took you up on your childish bet and lost, do you really think we'd ban them from this subforum? That is how ridiculous and high school you sound. Get a life and grow up.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I think you are spot on.

I think the main thing with the GT500 is if the chassis can live up to the expectations. The car has the power and the braking. And the trans. But were they actually able to build everything else to support all that? That will be the deciding factor. Ford is ahead based on a numbers game. But we know it comes down to much more than that.

To me GM built a very solid and capable chassis. Then they gave it a decent engine and a really good trans. And it was built with enough balance that nothing overpowers anything. If anything, I think the chassis might be too much for the LT4's power. Like, this car might have been under powered...which isn't a comment against the LT4, that is just how good the chassis actually is. With Ford tho, it seems that the S550 chassis is limited and always has been. Even with the GTs that chassis never felt solid enough for the HP. I thought my 15 GT was similar to my 5th Gen SS when I had both. And the GTs I test drove back then, it felt like all Ford ever did was throw Frankenstein parts at it like 3.73s in the rear...meanwhile the car couldn't grip. I drove one out the dealership parking lot and all it wanted to do was spin the wheels. I think the GT500's limitations in this regard will be evident. I do think they stepped it up and it is better as compared to the 15s. Maybe the GT350s are a bit better now. But I don't see the GT500 being able to control itself well enough to keep up with the ZLE around a track.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I think the main thing with the GT500 is if the chassis can live up to the expectations. The car has the power and the braking. And the trans. But were they actually able to build everything else to support all that? That will be the deciding factor. Ford is ahead based on a numbers game. But we know it comes down to much more than that.

To me GM built a very solid and capable chassis. Then they gave it a decent engine and a really good trans. And it was built with enough balance that nothing overpowers anything. If anything, I think the chassis might be too much for the LT4's power. Like, this car might have been under powered...which isn't a comment against the LT4, that is just how good the chassis actually is. With Ford tho, it seems that the S550 chassis is limited and always has been. Even with the GTs that chassis never felt solid enough for the HP. I thought my 15 GT was similar to my 5th Gen SS when I had both. And the GTs I test drove back then, it felt like all Ford ever did was throw Frankenstein parts at it like 3.73s in the rear...meanwhile the car couldn't grip. I drove one out the dealership parking lot and all it wanted to do was spin the wheels. I think the GT500's limitations in this regard will be evident. I do think they stepped it up and it is better as compared to the 15s. Maybe the GT350s are a bit better now. But I don't see the GT500 being able to control itself well enough to keep up with the ZLE around a track.

I agree, the GT500's chassis and suspension won't be a match for the ZLE and the GT500's power advantage won't be enough to win on any track.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I think the main thing with the GT500 is if the chassis can live up to the expectations. The car has the power and the braking. And the trans. But were they actually able to build everything else to support all that? That will be the deciding factor. Ford is ahead based on a numbers game. But we know it comes down to much more than that.

To me GM built a very solid and capable chassis. Then they gave it a decent engine and a really good trans. And it was built with enough balance that nothing overpowers anything. If anything, I think the chassis might be too much for the LT4's power. Like, this car might have been under powered...which isn't a comment against the LT4, that is just how good the chassis actually is. With Ford tho, it seems that the S550 chassis is limited and always has been. Even with the GTs that chassis never felt solid enough for the HP. I thought my 15 GT was similar to my 5th Gen SS when I had both. And the GTs I test drove back then, it felt like all Ford ever did was throw Frankenstein parts at it like 3.73s in the rear...meanwhile the car couldn't grip. I drove one out the dealership parking lot and all it wanted to do was spin the wheels. I think the GT500's limitations in this regard will be evident. I do think they stepped it up and it is better as compared to the 15s. Maybe the GT350s are a bit better now. But I don't see the GT500 being able to control itself well enough to keep up with the ZLE around a track.

I’m giving the GT500 the benefit of the doubt because Chevy has nothing to prove and Ford does.

The ZL1, in its fourth year, and the ZLE, in its third, have been described as being amongst the most sophisticated driver’s cars in the world. It can run with a Hellcat in the 1/4, beat a 2018 Porsche 911 Turbo S on the Ring and be purchase new for $60k. World class engineering.

Ford is really late to the party and has F-up every model so far with short cuts. If they blow this one ...lol

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Then stop asking. If I had time to waste it wouldn't be by trying to prove anything to someone like yourself. You already bet me that I didn't own the cars in my pic to which I took your bet and you immediately backed off and tried to change it. So why would I waste any time racing you. I could go out, buy a dedicated race car, build it, race you, walk you, and after all that you'd pop up some excuse or BS to get out of paying up like you already did. Plus you have nothing worth me racing anyway. What do you have? A 20+ year old GT that's been fully gutted and modded but can't even do better than a 9? LOL!! There are DDs out there that can do 9s. What a joke.

And your pal is gone. So you don't have to worry about him. LOL!!


LOL, I think we all saw that coming from a long way off, lol!! Funny thing is he was a member here for 6 years, the GT500 comes out, and all of a sudden he becomes a troll. Gotta love it.

You keep saying stuff like that. I could do this. I could do that. I know...I know... I’ve heard what you “COULD DO” a million times. I could have been a NBA player. If I was 6’10 and had ridiculous athletic ability. I’ve also said this a million times. I can only go by what you’ve actually done. You took a 10 speed ZL1. That is supposed to be a 10 second car. (According to you guys). And made a 11.9 run. That pass is yours for life. That’s what your legacy is as a drag racer! GT500 guy got banned. But He was just giving you a chance to Back up your Corvette/ZL1 vs GT500 rhetoric. Look at it this way. He was giving you an opportunity. He just wasn’t as polite as me about it. Wouldn’t it be fun to see how you could actually do? Against a car that you’re saying you’d be a drivers race with? You should have took him up on his offer. How often does someone actually offer to cover your expenses. On a closed track day? When you get your corvette. I’d look that guy up. Rear engine, DCT Cars should be the easiest thing on earth to drag race. Figure out what the optimum launch RPM is. And type it in. Then figure out what the optimal tire pressure is. I’d recommend starting at 26psi. The car will do the rest. You boys have a nice holiday. I’ll see you around.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

You keep saying stuff like that. I could do this. I could do that. I know...I know... I’ve heard what you “COULD DO” a million times. I could have been a NBA player. If I was 6’10 and had ridiculous athletic ability. I’ve also said this a million times. I can only go by what you’ve actually done. You took a 10 speed ZL1. That is supposed to be a 10 second car. (According to you guys). And made a 11.9 run. That pass is yours for life. That’s what your legacy is as a drag racer! GT500 guy got banned. But He was just giving you a chance to Back up your Corvette/ZL1 vs GT500 rhetoric. Look at it this way. He was giving you an opportunity. He just wasn’t as polite as me about it. Wouldn’t it be fun to see how you could actually do? Against a car that you’re saying you’d be a drivers race with? You should have took him up on his offer. How often does someone actually offer to cover your expenses. On a closed track day? When you get your corvette. I’d look that guy up. Rear engine, DCT Cars should be the easiest thing on earth to drag race. Figure out what the optimum launch RPM is. And type it in. Then figure out what the optimal tire pressure is. I’d recommend starting at 26psi. The car will do the rest. You boys have a nice holiday. I’ll see you around.

Nobody cares what you have to say old man.

[ChefBorOzzy]

These Mustang guys are something else. I've never seen a bunch quite like them. I went over to 6G to see if there is anything new on the GT500 and now a few of them are attacking Randy Pobst. Lol.

[ZRacerLE]

I'm new to the whole camaro vs mustang battle. Really seems like the Ford guys are insecure. I actually pull for all 3 of the big American brands. I'm just seeing GM commiting more to the laptimes battle which is where I have the most fun.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

You boys have a nice holiday. I’ll see you around.

Goodbye. Have a great weekend.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Here’s what I think in general regarding the six cars. Separating them like this: ZL1 vs GT500 vs C8 Z51 / ZLE vs CFTP vs C8 Z06

0 - 60:
GT500 vs ZL1: GT500 by 0.2 - 0.4s
GT500 vs C8 Z51: Z51 by 0.5s
CFTP vs ZLE: CFTP by 0.2 - 0.4s
CFTP vs C8 Z06: Z06 by 0.6s

Quarter Mile:
GT500 vs ZL1: GT500 by 0.1 - 0.3s
GT500 vs C8 Z51: Dead even, better trap for GT500
CFTP vs ZLE: CFTP by 0.1 - 0.3s
CFTP vs Z06: Z06 by 0.5s

”Technical” Road Course:
GT500 vs ZL1: Driver’s race, slight edge to GT500 same driver same day
GT500 vs C8 Z51: Driver’s race, edge to Z51 same driver same day
CFTP vs ZLE: Driver’s race, edge to ZLE A10, same driver same day. M6 probably trails CFTP
CFTP vs C8 Z06: I expect a clear win for Z06

”Long” Road Course:
GT500 vs ZL1: Clear win for GT500
GT500 vs C8 Z51: Close win for GT500
CFTP vs ZLE: Clear win for CFTP
CFTP vs C8 Z06: Clear win for Z06

Z06 will close the hp deficit some, but will still be back more than 150 hp. The chassis tuning will be more aggressive than Z51 (Duh) and better brakes and tires. But in particular, some of the intentionally dialed in understeer will be eliminated allowing skilled drivers to attack corners much more aggressively and with the ability to put power down like only a mid-engine car can coming out of the corners. I was pleasantly surprised at the numbers put down by the C8 base car. Considering that for most of the C8 development I literally walked past Tadge Juechter’s and Ed Piatek’s offices on my way in and out of work every day. I knew enough about the program (or so I thought) that I should not have been as surprised as I was. I expected mid 3s for 0-60. I expected 11.3 - 11.5 quarters. I expected $67,500+ base price. We have not yet seen the C8 Z51 head - to - head with GT500 base on a road course, but given how well it did against C7 Z06 In MT’s slalom test, there might be room for yet one more surprise. From Motor Trend’s testing of the car they were given....

There's more to the story, though. Although the C8 struggles for grip midcorner, it dwarfs the C7's ability to put down power coming off the corner; the ultra-quick transmission and extra power conspire to reduce the time between corners. Witness the C8 Z51's 23.3-second figure-eight lap at 0.90 average g, 0.4 second ahead of any C7 Z51 and 0.2 behind a C7 Z06 with steel brakes.

This gives me the impression that the Z51 will be a beast coming out of the corners and the Z06 even more so.

I for the most part agree with this, except I don't think the m6 zl1 1le is that far off of the a10. Lightning lap, while not super scientific but it's all we have at the moment, didn't yield a huge advantage for the a10. I could be wrong though.

I also think the non handling pack base gt500 with have a hard time keeping traction and might have it's hands full with the regular zl1 on a tight road course, handling pack base will be better suited though that'll add cost.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

These Mustang guys are something else. I've never seen a bunch quite like them. I went over to 6G to see if there is anything new on the GT500 and now a few of them are attacking Randy Pobst. Lol.

What's the problem with Randy? lol

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

These Mustang guys are something else. I've never seen a bunch quite like them. I went over to 6G to see if there is anything new on the GT500 and now a few of them are attacking Randy Pobst. Lol.

ZRacerLE nailed it. Insecurity.

Six years of development and a 110 HP advantage might not be enough to overcome Alpha.