[c4racer]

Originally Posted by blackgloves

You think a 2nd handles better than a 3rd? My 3rd doesnt bat an eye to just about everything I throw at it. The 6th feels much bigger than a 3rd when driving but mainly because the seat sits so low compared to the dash. You feel buried in the car. The 3rd sits up higher in regard to the dash. It probably makes a little difference that mine has some lean/rake. Its 3 inches narrower than a 6th

Yes my second gen which is far from stock handles at least as good as my 89 iroc with springs shocks and control arms did

[c4racer]

Originally Posted by blackgloves

I'm curious on how you came up with this number and what is thrown into the build. You can find 3rd gen Camaros with LS motors all over the internet for well below that number.

Find a roller and a wrecked car that's selling a LS engine and you have a nice head start to an awesome car

I was basing that on using the E-rod LS3 to make it smog legal in CA and a magnum T56 and getting into a decent car for about $8-10K.

But I’m also adding track brakes, wheels, 9”, suspension
How I would want the car.
It's just a rough estimate - yes, it could be built slightly cheaper, but then again there are a lot of things I left off and the details can kill you in cost over-runs - so maybe not. I just built a 71 that already had the motor and all cosmetics done and it can eat up $$ in a hurry building a car like this. I really enjoy it - but it's not cheaper to build a car vs. buying one done - problem is nobody has ever built a car exactly how I want it. Generally speaking. And often when you add it all up and compare with what else you can buy for the same $$ you really start to wonder why you did that. Even still - I wouldn't trade my 71 for anything - love that car. And the build isn't done. Is it ever??

[blackgloves]

Originally Posted by c4racer

Yes my second gen which is far from stock handles at least as good as my 89 iroc with springs shocks and control arms did

Sounds like the 2nd gen is highly modified and the 89 Iroc had basic suspension/handling upgrades and the 2nd gen handled "at least as good"

I'm sorry but that doesn't really support what you initially claimed or insinuated. I don't think I've ever known anyone to claim a 2nd gen out handles a 3rd on any sort of road course racing. It's quite the opposite. The only time you can put the two in the same category with handling is if the 2nd has been highly modified and the 3rd is stock or less modified. Is that what you're talking about? If so, any car that's highly modified has that advantage going for it.

If I have to buy a car for road course racing and I'm looking for a roller. I'm going with a 3rd gen Camaro over just about any generation Camaro, firebird, mustang, challenger..

[blackgloves]

Originally Posted by c4racer

I was basing that on using the E-rod LS3 to make it smog legal in CA and a magnum T56 and getting into a decent car for about $8-10K.

But I’m also adding track brakes, wheels, 9”, suspension
How I would want the car.
It's just a rough estimate - yes, it could be built slightly cheaper, but then again there are a lot of things I left off and the details can kill you in cost over-runs - so maybe not. I just built a 71 that already had the motor and all cosmetics done and it can eat up $$ in a hurry building a car like this. I really enjoy it - but it's not cheaper to build a car vs. buying one done - problem is nobody has ever built a car exactly how I want it. Generally speaking. And often when you add it all up and compare with what else you can buy for the same $$ you really start to wonder why you did that. Even still - I wouldn't trade my 71 for anything - love that car. And the build isn't done. Is it ever??

Yes, that makes sense if you're going that specific and unique. However, for the OP's sake, if he drove a LS swapped 3rd gen, with new paint, A/C, nice interior, mild heads/cam, full exhaust, Bilstein shocks, eibach springs, brakes and rear end off a 4th gen, wheels of his choice. He or she is looking at a car that cost less than a 6th gen and is a blast to drive

My IROC has a 5.7L TPI with heads, cam, and a long list of goodies. It sounds amazing but doesnt have the power my 6th does

[c4racer]

Doesn’t take much to get a 2nd gen handling up to par with a 3rd gen.
Similar wheelbase and layout. The camber curve on the front is similar once you add tubular control arms. Travel is similar. Steering geometry is similar.
Rear end needs to be upgraded to 4 link or torque arm or similar with coil overs
But once you do all that it’s remarkably similar !

[JT58]

I have a blast on any ride in just my V6 1LT, M6. I think a lot has to do with the MBRP axle back and the sound or perhaps that I don't have the V8 and can rev out the V6 and not get into trouble as fast. But maybe also the fact that I could be driving a boring Camry, Altima, Corolla and getting the same gas mileage as I'm getting in my Camaro- and having such a better, faster, better sounding, handling, etc., etc. car that runs on the same cheap 87 octane fuel. I can't wait to mod it with better, lighter, forged wheels and get even better performance and handling with just a V6.

[gmcvt]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

This dual personality is perfect for me. Fun at speed and also a great long distance driver. We used to call a car like this a Gran Turismo or a GT car for sure. I have driven a number of performance cars and have found that cars that are fun to drive fast can be annoying to drive normally and live with day to day. It is just like BMWs used to be. Now they are trying to get back to that but struggling a bit. Chevy nailed it. One of the best somewhat affordable driving cars ever. I am not a fan boy.

Exactly.

[rayhawk]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

C&D has a similar issue with the C8...

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

Funny, my thoughts reading this thread were that this sounded like a Car and Driver article...

The new Corvette blows everything away anywhere near the price, but to avoid a bunch of angry letters from Porsche owners who spent two or three times as much, they always have to add an asterisk.

[Karl Carson]

I find my 2SS to be enjoyable every drive, fast or slow. I get at least one compliment almost every time I'm out while in town. When on the highway I get people driving just back a bit then pass. The camaro is capable of better acceleration than any car within a few miles of me. I feel I have nothing to prove and can relax.

[IOMike]

Originally Posted by JT58

I have a blast on any ride in just my V6 1LT, M6. I think a lot has to do with the MBRP axle back and the sound or perhaps that I don't have the V8 and can rev out the V6 and not get into trouble as fast. But maybe also the fact that I could be driving a boring Camry, Altima, Corolla and getting the same gas mileage as I'm getting in my Camaro- and having such a better, faster, better sounding, handling, etc., etc. car that runs on the same cheap 87 octane fuel. I can't wait to mod it with better, lighter, forged wheels and get even better performance and handling with just a V6.

You know, my GTO was more fun after I took the blower off and the HP went from 600sh down to around 450 and was a mid/high 12 second car again.

I could beat on it some and ring it out more without hitting triple digit speeds so quickly. You get used to the speed quickly and it never feels fast enough for long, but at those power levels you're too fast for 99.9% of the cars on the road. I had a lot more fun with it keeping it a bolt on car.

In my opinion there is no reason to have something faster than low 12s on the street. I've had faster and probably won't again.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

The new miata are nice man, I know 6 footers fit, but no-one bigger than that really. The 19s have 181 hp at like 2300 pounds, they feel quick chirp the tires on the 1 to 2 shift. Differenr aninmal than past miatas imo.

LOL...Miata.

[c4racer]

Originally Posted by Deputy Dog

LOL...Miata.

Just try keeping up with a race prepped Miata on a road course in your Camaro !!

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by DEDEDE

Thanks I think that is a good suggestion.

The point that I've been trying to communicate is this:

The SS "Shrinks" when driving it in a spirited manner. Have you ever noticed this. It feels nimble and toss able, it feels perfect. It does not feel special when I'm just tooling around. It feels big, heavy and boring.

I imagine that Donohue's Trans-Am car would felt kind of similar in normal street driving. Certainly in comparison to the smaller and lighter sports roadsters of the day.

I suspect that any car feels that way when being driven at only 2 or 3 tenths. At that point you're still within the tires' "linear range", where there isn't going to be enough slip angle stuff going on to feel. Especially with EPAS, which is as good at reducing steering "feel" as it is at pleasing those who are chasing mpg improvements.

I'm not so sure you aren't putting the car down, at least in a somewhat subtle manner. Basically you've been saying that it's not exciting enough for you under normal driving conditions. I get that, and I get that your bike experience has probably spoiled you as far as this is concerned. All I can say is that you've got to find a way to get past that.

Find more corners . . . and pay more attention to what's going on when you do. Pay more attention to all of your control inputs without worrying about how far away from a race pace they're happening at. Practice smoothness rather than speed or acceleration, all the time. You can still keep the level of attention you need in your race-pace driving in the slow-pace street driving stuff if you try . . .

Better yet would be to start doing your hardest driving in the right place for it. Take it to a road course and learn how to drive it the right way there, which isn't going to be the same thing as the "right way" for any level of street driving that isn't flat-out suicidal/homicidal. Funny thing is, once you are driving up past 1g lateral and going WOT out of 100 mph corners on the track, the need to always be driving at 8/10ths no matter where you are fades. You'll come to wish that other drivers around you on the street were as courteous as the other drivers in your run group on the track generally are, so you might be a little more willing to take a bit off your preferred pace for that reason alone.

And don't let your age hold you back from taking it to the track or an autocross (I was 64 at my first track day and will be 72 in a matter of days).


Norm

[orange blaze]

My 2017 SS auto is the best sports car I have ever driven and I have had my share. The sound, get up and go is fantastic. Just sitting in it in my garage brings a smile to my face. My wife loves it as much as I do and does her share of driving when I am at work. GM nailed it when they designed the GEN 6. Ya the sightlines are not great with all the pillars but who gives a damn who is behind you as I will leave them in the dust. Missed the Camaro Con but hopefully next year.