[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by c4racer

I checked the PN's and the axles are the same between SS and ZL1 - FWIW.
Looks like the diff itself is different between Auto and manual, but the manual one is common to SS and ZL1.
Also with respect to the 6speed manual - same transmission used on both.

so it's the same exact driveline on a 6 speed car.

Transmissions are the same on m6 cars, the manual rear end ratio is the same but it's not the same diff. Zl1 coupe and ss 1le use the 9.9 inch eLSD, the ss used a different lsd, maybe the same as the convertible zl1 non e lsd, which im sure is plenty strong.

That's the first I hear of the axles being the same, from what I understood the 1le had similar axles of the same thickness but they were slightly different and that the ss had different axles as well. I could be wrong though.

[LT4Greg]

That’s my thinking too Robby! The LT4 puts out more hp and torque than the LT1 which would make sense that the axles were different and bigger. But then again what do we know!

[c4racer]

that said - I don't think there would be much of a market for a LT1 model w/ the LT4.
I guess they do sell Hellcats with normal RT suspension and tires - so there is some indication there may be a market. But I think you would want the 1SS trim at a minimum so you at least get the SS sized tires. There could be a market for a SS with a LT4 in a minimum configuration model - manual trans only, no options, basic 1SS with the LT4.
Would I buy it? No. I would personally rather have a 1LE with the better suspension, ediff and tires - even with the LT1 motor. Or just get a dang ZL1 already.
But somebody would buy it.
I don't see it happening, however.

[LT4Greg]

I don’t see it happening either c4!!

[c4racer]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Transmissions are the same on m6 cars, the manual rear end ratio is the same but it's not the same diff. Zl1 coupe and ss 1le use the 9.9 inch eLSD, the ss used a different lsd, maybe the same as the convertible zl1 non e lsd, which im sure is plenty strong.

That's the first I hear of the axles being the same, from what I understood the 1le had similar axles of the same thickness but they were slightly different and that the ss had different axles as well. I could be wrong though.

They use the GM PN on axles for M6 cars anyway.
And if the diff on the vert ZL1 is the same as the SS cars - that would pass the warranty test. Point here being - they could put the LT4 in a SS or LT1 if they wanted to without making it a full ZL1. But I just don't see the business opportunity. I wonder how many base style Hellcats Dodge sells vs. the wide-body with the 315 square tire set-up.

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by c4racer

that said - I don't think there would be much of a market for a LT1 model w/ the LT4.

There might not be. But it wouldn't be any skin off of GM's nose. You have an already established assembly line with all these parts available. No special parts ordered/warehoused. If they sold only 10, it's not like they have to be kicked over to SLP for "factory upgrades/mods" It runs down the line using and it would be like any other car that was ordered.

Originally Posted by c4racer

But I think you would want the 1SS trim at a minimum so you at least get the SS sized tires.

This thinking I do not understand. Either the ZL1 rubber comes on the car, or you buy aftermarket stuff. Most people do not run factory tires on the track anyway.

Originally Posted by c4racer

Would I buy it? No. I would personally rather have a 1LE with the better suspension, ediff and tires - even with the LT1 motor. Or just get a dang ZL1 already.
But somebody would buy it.

Just like the ZL1, or the 1LE option, isn't for everyone. I personally don't care for either. The ZL1 is way too heavy and has way too much junk on it for me. You like it? Cool! The ZL1 drivetrain in a 1LT body awesome. 650 horses in a 3-400 lb. lighter car? That would be crazy fast right off the showroom floor. Just lie the 69 ZL1'S were.
Some are more muscle car guys and some are more track car guys. Whatever floats your boat.

Originally Posted by c4racer

I don't see it happening, however.

Even though it would probably be an easy thing to do, I don't see it happening either. Not from the factory anyway. GM isn't going to upstage their show pony.

[c4racer]

ya - I get your concept 95Imp

that would be a nifety car and could steal some hellcat buyers away - but you would have to offer it with the A10 prolly to get the drag crowd.

[hotlap]

@95Imp. I like the idea of a 650 HP that weighs 3,500 lbs (300 to 400 less than ZL1) that costs $50k.

The car you outlined isn’t that because those three items all take the formula in opposite directions ...and there is no way that they can sell it with “bring your own tires” like they did in the 60s. At least not if it has a VIN.

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by hotlap

@95Imp. I like the idea of a 650 HP that weighs 3,500 lbs (300 to 400 less than ZL1) that costs $50k.

The car you outlined isn’t that because those three items all take the formula in opposite directions ...and there is no way that they can sell it with “bring your own tires” like they did in the 60s. At least not if it has a VIN.

I could agree with all this. Like I said before we went down this road, GM will never make it. There is no way they will upset the flagship ZL1. Just like the Z will never be more powerful/faster than the vette.

I think they could VERY easily pull it off @ 50K and still make money. But that price is probably wishful thinking too. I also thin that a car like this would pull in a lot of buyers for other versions of the Camaro. Which, in turn drives, up overall profit on the model. "Break even on this model and make up for it by selling 2 other vehicles at normal price".

There is no way to prove this. I am just spewing theories.

I also understand that times change and people are less tolerant. The ZL1 tires would fit on there and they are off the shelf too. DR's aren't factory available and that was just on the wish list. If Dodge can have them as OEM, why can't we too?


In the end, and back to the original programming....

The LT1, as is, will be a great car. Buy some used SS or aftermarket rims/rubber and you'll have a quality car that is comparable to the way most SS's are used. It will be a blast to drive.

[NeverDie]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

Did Chevy start welding the rims and tires to the LT1's so you can't change them. EVER?

We are comparing the cars as they ship. If you want to change tires on one then you'll change them on the other as well so they would be the same. And your wheel/tire package then erodes the price difference between the two and you're left with a lesser vehicle in the LT1.

So that's very dumb.

And since it is the same body, wouldn't you be able to put a used set of SS rims that would fit? Or, even go down and buy an aftermarket set?

You could do that for either car. This doesn't give the LT1 an advantage, in fact AS I SAID it gives the SS the advantage from the showroom floor before you started moving goalposts and adding aftermarket variables to try and make your point a valid one. Didn't work.

Congratulations! You're in the lead!

You're like, some kind of Martial Autist. Like *way* better at being a moron than I'll ever be. I'd suggest you stop trying so hard.

[Red Chief]

Trim levels exist because people simply can’t or won’t go any higher. You think an extra $50 on your car payment isn’t much but for a lot people it’s hard to justify for what’s basically a toy.

The LT1 I took for a test drive was a huge improvement over the six I’m used to and there’s no way I’m tracking or racing a DD.

[Whocares05050]

If you wanted to get the perfect drag setup, auto LT-1 all the way. Cheaper and no optiond to worry about. Daily driver i would get 1ss on up

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by NeverDie

We are comparing the cars as they ship. If you want to change tires on one then you'll change them on the other as well so they would be the same. And your wheel/tire package then erodes the price difference between the two and you're left with a lesser vehicle in the LT1.

So that's very dumb.

No what's dumb is trying to win an argument you can't, then coming back for more.

For example: I'm saving weight AND money on a LT1. If I put 2k in a new set of wheels/tires I'm STILL ahead by 1-2K on MSRP. Then I can also get a wheel/tire combo that is lighter than stock/smaller diameter which will boost the effective gear ratio/less rotating mass and make the car quicker, huh? Double bonus points!

Wanna put the exact same tires/rims on the 2 cars? Go for it! Because.....

Originally Posted by NeverDie

This doesn't give the LT1 an advantage, in fact AS I SAID it gives the SS the advantage from the showroom floor before you started moving goalposts and adding aftermarket variables to try and make your point a valid one. Didn't work.

Bottom line, bright boy, is mass x hp = acceleration. The lighter car with the same hp wins (all else being equal). So that means the lighter LT1 wins. Not by much, but I never heard anyone say "I won a race only by a bumper so it didn't count".

If you want to go "off the showroom floor", a slightly lighter car vs slightly less traction. Driver's race. Both cars should be equal, but the dude with the LT1 *might lose* because of the extra weight in his wallet....

Originally Posted by NeverDie

You're like, some kind of Martial Autist. Like *way* better at being a moron than I'll ever be. I'd suggest you stop trying so hard.

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