[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by fla17ls1lev6

The v6 will run 155 mph, while the v8 will run something like 167. If your stupid enough to drive that fast, you will be dead and i will drive right past you in my v6. V6 is perfect balance of great handling, decent gas mileage and cheap insurance, love my v6. Did that done that. as they say, i have owned stuff way faster than todays camero ss, back in the day, on a race track. The fun in a street car is handling not pure speed. If you are truely want a race car, run it at the track.

If you want to intentionally experience more than just hints at what that great handling might be capable of, you still need to be running on a race track. No matter how many cylinders your car's engine has.


Norm

[Buzzberd6]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

If you want to intentionally experience more than just hints at what that great handling might be capable of, you still need to be running on a race track. No matter how many cylinders your car's engine has.


Norm

Couldn't agree more!

[SecondZ28]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Turbocharging has been treated a little differently by Ford - for them (when they were still offering the V6) the T-4 was given mid-level stature with the V6 being base, while Chevy went the other way with the NA V6 at the mid-level. Perhaps Chevy sees the mid-level Camaro as 'sporty' in a more traditional sports car sense than Ford saw the mid-level Mustang and made their engine choices accordingly???

Norm

I remember reading at launch when asked about the lineup vs Mustang. The response (AO?) was that they felt it was essentially the "natural order" to offer 4/6/8 instead of 6/4/8

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by pjz1082

I agree with everything here BUT depending on your credit it can sometimes be harder to finance a less expensive used car than buying a new one. This is what I fell into. Banks wouldn't finance me on a $15k used loan but would on a $28k new car loan. Makes a lot of sense, right? LOL

Reason for this is, newer cars are much less of a risk in the case of a defaulted loan. It is much easier to recoup and investment on a single owner lower mileage new car than a multi owner used car with more miles wear.

Originally Posted by autocross

I wonder what they’d be looking at the mustang as then? I don’t even know how I view it. Currently i see it like all those japanese cars that people get to improve because they’re not perfect, but I could be totally missing the ball

The way I feel about it is, if you're going to buy any of these cars to MOD, you will in the end pay the price of an SS anyway. These cars are great for boltons or mild mods but if you want serious power.. do yourself a favor and start with a SS which has the motor, suspension, and everything else right out the factory to support it. If you want a fun and sporty commuter, the other models will be just fine. Just trust me on this..I've done this before..you do NOT want to tank $10k - $20k into a car and still not be completely happy with it in the end...its why I postponed my Z28 project (was going to build a 700 Horse Power 99 Z28) as I did not want to look back and say...damn...I still want an SS. -- Im not bashing the other models..I'm just advising to you what could happen...

Also - by what I am reading, I will be honest with you... you are not completely satisfied with the V6. There is nothing wrong with that. You admire it, you think its a great car too.. but you want something more out of it than what its readily able to give you and the fact that it can't is disturbing you. You are trying to piece together straws to see if you can make it happen or justify purchasing it to build what you initially desired in your dreams when you started your hunt but you cannot justify the feasibility of going much further than what it currently offers...once again, nothing wrong with this. I loved my 1LT V6, it was a quick and sporty car..but I did recognize and realize its limits...which for a DD it was MORE than enough.. but to get something serious out of it...it just wasn't worth it. I'm not calling it a bad car...Its amazing for what it is...but I recognize that without a serious investment that just financially isn't worth it...it couldn't be made MUCH better...

Whats needed now isn't necessarily the car...but accepting... you can choose the V6 but know that it will not be easy to make it FAST, it will be quick, but if that isn't enough for you then you will eventually look back and kind of wish you went further. You can choose the V8 and while it may not be the cheapest...you can justify what you are paying for. You wont have to worry about reliability, mods, anything..its all right there in a factory warranty..

I'm not typing all this to be a prick or to bash the V6, its a amazing car...I'm just trying to put into perspective how I would feel given your input and your thoughts on the matter and why I would likely choose the SS.

If cost is a serious concern, I'd recommend trying a 1SS M6 and see how you like that...I imagine it will be very fun rowing through the gears.

Originally Posted by fla17ls1lev6

The v6 will run 155 mph, while the v8 will run something like 167. If your stupid enough to drive that fast, you will be dead and i will drive right past you in my v6. V6 is perfect balance of great handling, decent gas mileage and cheap insurance, love my v6. Did that done that. as they say, i have owned stuff way faster than todays camero ss, back in the day, on a race track. The fun in a street car is handling not pure speed. If you are truely want a race car, run it at the track.

Both will run faster than that, they're just speed limited / governed to these speeds due to tire ratings. As far as handling goes on the street.. unless you're looking to attract alot of unwanted attention, there's no advantage between the V6 and SS on the STREET, except that the V6 feels more nimble. You will never approach the limits of either car on the street unless you're being an idiot on the road. On the track, V6 will slightly out maneuver the SS but not by a huge margin. SS will still win just due to raw power.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

If you want to intentionally experience more than just hints at what that great handling might be capable of, you still need to be running on a race track. No matter how many cylinders your car's engine has.


Norm

This...

There is a noticeable difference between how the V6 and V8 handles.. the SS drives like a heavier car, but neither car will ever have their limits pushed on the streets.

[yankee]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Reason for this is, newer cars are much less of a risk in the case of a defaulted loan. It is much easier to recoup and investment on a single owner lower mileage new car than a multi owner used car with more miles wear.



The way I feel about it is, if you're going to buy any of these cars to MOD, you will in the end pay the price of an SS anyway. These cars are great for boltons or mild mods but if you want serious power.. do yourself a favor and start with a SS which has the motor, suspension, and everything else right out the factory to support it. If you want a fun and sporty commuter, the other models will be just fine. Just trust me on this..I've done this before..you do NOT want to tank $10k - $20k into a car and still not be completely happy with it in the end...its why I postponed my Z28 project (was going to build a 700 Horse Power 99 Z28) as I did not want to look back and say...damn...I still want an SS. -- Im not bashing the other models..I'm just advising to you what could happen...

Also - by what I am reading, I will be honest with you... you are not completely satisfied with the V6. There is nothing wrong with that. You admire it, you think its a great car too.. but you want something more out of it than what its readily able to give you and the fact that it can't is disturbing you. You are trying to piece together straws to see if you can make it happen or justify purchasing it to build what you initially desired in your dreams when you started your hunt but you cannot justify the feasibility of going much further than what it currently offers...once again, nothing wrong with this. I loved my 1LT V6, it was a quick and sporty car..but I did recognize and realize its limits...which for a DD it was MORE than enough.. but to get something serious out of it...it just wasn't worth it. I'm not calling it a bad car...Its amazing for what it is...but I recognize that without a serious investment that just financially isn't worth it...it couldn't be made MUCH better...

Whats needed now isn't necessarily the car...but accepting... you can choose the V6 but know that it will not be easy to make it FAST, it will be quick, but if that isn't enough for you then you will eventually look back and kind of wish you went further. You can choose the V8 and while it may not be the cheapest...you can justify what you are paying for. You wont have to worry about reliability, mods, anything..its all right there in a factory warranty..

I'm not typing all this to be a prick or to bash the V6, its a amazing car...I'm just trying to put into perspective how I would feel given your input and your thoughts on the matter and why I would likely choose the SS.

If cost is a serious concern, I'd recommend trying a 1SS M6 and see how you like that...I imagine it will be very fun rowing through the gears.



Both will run faster than that, they're just speed limited / governed to these speeds due to tire ratings. As far as handling goes on the street.. unless you're looking to attract alot of unwanted attention, there's no advantage between the V6 and SS on the STREET, except that the V6 feels more nimble. You will never approach the limits of either car on the street unless you're being an idiot on the road. On the track, V6 will slightly out maneuver the SS but not by a huge margin. SS will still win just due to raw power.



This...

There is a noticeable difference between how the V6 and V8 handles.. the SS drives like a heavier car, but neither car will ever have their limits pushed on the streets.

Thank you for this comment. It's great to see a detailed opinion between two engines without the "flame" I am also wondering what's your comment on the I4 Turbo in terms of agility, handling, fun (for DD), compared to a V6.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by yankee

Thank you for this comment. It's great to see a detailed opinion between two engines without the "flame" I am also wondering what's your comment on the I4 Turbo in terms of agility, handling, fun (for DD), compared to a V6.

The Turbo I4 surprised me initially base stock for stock. The car feels peppier than the V6 but I later realized its because the I4 has a sharper torque curve where as the V6 has a more linear / gradual curve..so it feels like the I4 is faster because you're launched into peak torque sooner ...where as the V6 has to rev out... the I4 was great when needing immediately acceleration but the V6 was "faster" overall..you just couldn't feel it.

Agility and handling felt the same. My 1LT V6 was unbelievably agile, it was on par with my dads 2002 C5 and was capable of keeping up with it through the twisties... and easily capable of out manuevering the average car. I drove an Impala once while my car was in the shop and quickly realized just how agile my 1LT was. People say there's a huge weight difference... on paper there isnt much proof of this...the average difference is between 50 and 100 pounds at best. Mine weighed in right at around 3,400 lbs.

Fuel economy, my V6 got up to 47 MPG all highway on a road trip to California. Prior to that my record was 42 MPG all highway on a road trip to Pittsburgh. These were speeds ranging from 70 to 85 MPH... The V6 LOVES high speeds.. it can handle 90 MPH under 2k RPMS. Street / Highway combo, I got around 26 - 30 MPG...I really think my car was a freak car... I have proof of these occurrences as well.

That said, on a STOCK TO STOCK comparison, V6 still wins... the difference comes when modding because the I4 due to F.I. doesn't face the same limitations as the V6. So if you're into modding you have a better platform, but if you're looking to surpass SS power, you will still need to build the motor to support it or you risk popping a piston, other issue is ... no warranty.

[yankee]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

The Turbo I4 surprised me initially base stock for stock. The car feels peppier than the V6 but I later realized its because the I4 has a sharper torque curve where as the V6 has a more linear / gradual curve..so it feels like the I4 is faster because you're launched into peak torque sooner ...where as the V6 has to rev out... the I4 was great when needing immediately acceleration but the V6 was "faster" overall..you just couldn't feel it.

Agility and handling felt the same. My 1LT V6 was unbelievably agile, it was on par with my dads 2002 C5 and was capable of keeping up with it through the twisties... and easily capable of out manuevering the average car. I drove an Impala once while my car was in the shop and quickly realized just how agile my 1LT was. People say there's a huge weight difference... on paper there isnt much proof of this...the average difference is between 50 and 100 pounds at best. Mine weighed in right at around 3,400 lbs.

Fuel economy, my V6 got up to 47 MPG all highway on a road trip to California. Prior to that my record was 42 MPG all highway on a road trip to Pittsburgh. These were speeds ranging from 70 to 85 MPH... The V6 LOVES high speeds.. it can handle 90 MPH under 2k RPMS. Street / Highway combo, I got around 26 - 30 MPG...I really think my car was a freak car... I have proof of these occurrences as well.

That said, on a STOCK TO STOCK comparison, V6 still wins... the difference comes when modding because the I4 due to F.I. doesn't face the same limitations as the V6. So if you're into modding you have a better platform, but if you're looking to surpass SS power, you will still need to build the motor to support it or you risk popping a piston, other issue is ... no warranty.

Thank you very much!

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by SecondZ28

I remember reading at launch when asked about the lineup vs Mustang. The response (AO?) was that they felt it was essentially the "natural order" to offer 4/6/8 instead of 6/4/8

The way it should be considered.

Power adders (any method) are distortions to any sense of engine size or stature.


Norm

[Camarolover85]

I never considered a 4 cylinder because I think they’re lame, turbo or not. I always tell everyone, “I don’t care how fast your civic is, it’s still a civic.” If you’re truly into speed and being the fastest you should get an SS and start at the absolute highest baseline possible. I bought a V6 because it doesn’t sound like a 4 cylinder and it’s the perfect blend of speed and fun driving that I need to drive around the streets. When I can buy a V8 to garage and drive on weekends, that’s when I will do that. If I wanted a race car I’d buy the ZL1 or the new ZR1.

[rotohead]

I gave up the SS for the RS, as I'm getting older my reactions are getting slower, I love speed and the RS give me what I want and to boot it's not a pushrod engine so down the road I'll look into a cam swap(4) of them but for now I'm very happy with the RS V-6.

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by rotohead

I gave up the SS for the RS, as I'm getting older my reactions are getting slower, I love speed and the RS give me what I want and to boot it's not a pushrod engine so down the road I'll look into a cam swap(4) of them but for now I'm very happy with the RS V-6.

I highly doubt anyone will ever make cams for the V6. No gains would be made since the engine already has variable valve timing and cam phasing.

[autocross]

Originally Posted by fla17ls1lev6

The v6 will run 155 mph, while the v8 will run something like 167. If your stupid enough to drive that fast, you will be dead and i will drive right past you in my v6. V6 is perfect balance of great handling, decent gas mileage and cheap insurance, love my v6. Did that done that. as they say, i have owned stuff way faster than todays camero ss, back in the day, on a race track. The fun in a street car is handling not pure speed. If you are truely want a race car, run it at the track.

That’s the right mentality! I think the mustang could follow a little more of this concept.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

If you want to intentionally experience more than just hints at what that great handling might be capable of, you still need to be running on a race track. No matter how many cylinders your car's engine has.


Norm

True. People shouldn’t treat public roads like racetracks!!!

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Reason for this is, newer cars are much less of a risk in the case of a defaulted loan. It is much easier to recoup and investment on a single owner lower mileage new car than a multi owner used car with more miles wear.



The way I feel about it is, if you're going to buy any of these cars to MOD, you will in the end pay the price of an SS anyway. These cars are great for boltons or mild mods but if you want serious power.. do yourself a favor and start with a SS which has the motor, suspension, and everything else right out the factory to support it. If you want a fun and sporty commuter, the other models will be just fine. Just trust me on this..I've done this before..you do NOT want to tank $10k - $20k into a car and still not be completely happy with it in the end...its why I postponed my Z28 project (was going to build a 700 Horse Power 99 Z28) as I did not want to look back and say...damn...I still want an SS. -- Im not bashing the other models..I'm just advising to you what could happen...

Also - by what I am reading, I will be honest with you... you are not completely satisfied with the V6. There is nothing wrong with that. You admire it, you think its a great car too.. but you want something more out of it than what its readily able to give you and the fact that it can't is disturbing you. You are trying to piece together straws to see if you can make it happen or justify purchasing it to build what you initially desired in your dreams when you started your hunt but you cannot justify the feasibility of going much further than what it currently offers...once again, nothing wrong with this. I loved my 1LT V6, it was a quick and sporty car..but I did recognize and realize its limits...which for a DD it was MORE than enough.. but to get something serious out of it...it just wasn't worth it. I'm not calling it a bad car...Its amazing for what it is...but I recognize that without a serious investment that just financially isn't worth it...it couldn't be made MUCH better...

Whats needed now isn't necessarily the car...but accepting... you can choose the V6 but know that it will not be easy to make it FAST, it will be quick, but if that isn't enough for you then you will eventually look back and kind of wish you went further. You can choose the V8 and while it may not be the cheapest...you can justify what you are paying for. You wont have to worry about reliability, mods, anything..its all right there in a factory warranty..

I'm not typing all this to be a prick or to bash the V6, its a amazing car...I'm just trying to put into perspective how I would feel given your input and your thoughts on the matter and why I would likely choose the SS.

If cost is a serious concern, I'd recommend trying a 1SS M6 and see how you like that...I imagine it will be very fun rowing through the gears.



Both will run faster than that, they're just speed limited / governed to these speeds due to tire ratings. As far as handling goes on the street.. unless you're looking to attract alot of unwanted attention, there's no advantage between the V6 and SS on the STREET, except that the V6 feels more nimble. You will never approach the limits of either car on the street unless you're being an idiot on the road. On the track, V6 will slightly out maneuver the SS but not by a huge margin. SS will still win just due to raw power.



This...

There is a noticeable difference between how the V6 and V8 handles.. the SS drives like a heavier car, but neither car will ever have their limits pushed on the streets.

Yes. That’s what i noticed. The SS felt very solid. I haven’t seen too many people modifying the camaros though? Where’s the best place to purchase mods? Someone on the forum said the mustang crowd was a lot younger than the camaro crowd. Is that true? That would explain the shortage of asthetic modifications.

Originally Posted by Camarolover85

I never considered a 4 cylinder because I think they’re lame, turbo or not. I always tell everyone, “I don’t care how fast your civic is, it’s still a civic.” If you’re truly into speed and being the fastest you should get an SS and start at the absolute highest baseline possible. I bought a V6 because it doesn’t sound like a 4 cylinder and it’s the perfect blend of speed and fun driving that I need to drive around the streets. When I can buy a V8 to garage and drive on weekends, that’s when I will do that. If I wanted a race car I’d buy the ZL1 or the new ZR1.

That’s a little harsh. Some of those turbo 4’s are very impressive. I wouldn’t judge a car solely by what’s under the hood

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by autocross

That’s the right mentality! I think the mustang could follow a little more of this concept.

True. People shouldn’t treat public roads like racetracks!!!

Yes. That’s what i noticed. The SS felt very solid. I haven’t seen too many people modifying the camaros though? Where’s the best place to purchase mods? Someone on the forum said the mustang crowd was a lot younger than the camaro crowd. Is that true? That would explain the shortage of asthetic modifications.


That’s a little harsh. Some of those turbo 4’s are very impressive. I wouldn’t judge a car solely by what’s under the hood

I personally haven't been in the market for mods so I haven't really be in the know of what people are doing with the V8 6th Gens. I believe the general conscience is, intake and exhaust on these cars only enhance sound, power isn't going to be greatly effected. To get more power, you need a heads / cam combo. That or if you just want to go crazy, supercharge. The difference between the LT1 and the V6 is the aftermarket is ready to support it and it doesnt require multiple cams..Both are maxed out as far as boltons go.

I once again havent been looking and I intend on keeping my SS stock for a good while as the car is just over powered as is for my daily use - I can never use more than 25% of it without risking a infraction of some sort and my only real desire is for it to be a bit louder and lopier but otherwise Im really happy with the out the box performance, it will destroy my 99 Z28 which has a LID, Throttle Body, built 4L60E and would likely continue to do so even if I put a full exhaust on it... to put into perspective just how leagues different the SS is, My 99 Z28 will beat the 1LT V6 I had...it probably wouldn't slaughter it... but it would win...therefor even making my 99 marginally better the 6th Gen STOCK would still hold the advantage.

So I have a few ideas as to why more kids are into the mustangs than Camaro's and why not as many are modding...

#1 Until just recently, Mustangs could be had about $5 - $7k cheaper. Although until recently they werent as fast, they had a great exhaust note and were the affordable V8 of its time..you could have one at nearly the same cost of a V6 Camaro and given those two options, if someone wanted a heart pounding V8, which one is he going to pick?

#2 With the above stated, most of the younger crowd do not NEED 455 Horse Power but rather something sharp, loud and fun to show off in..they don't need to win every stop light race.. they just need to look good and sound good.

#3 Mustang carries a boy racer image where as the Camaro carries a heritage performance vehicle image.

#4 Mustang receives alot more advertisement.

So you see, we're looking at a market of drivers who are not too concerned with competitive numbers but want that thrill of a Heritage V8 with affordability -- This is where the Camaro kind of fails... kind of... rebates and incinitives during certain events or times of years makes up for this but the Mustang allowed you to walk out the door without a hastle with a quick car...and it didnt have to be as quick as a 455 HP machine to beat most of everything on the street, and be quite fun.

I personally feel the aftermarket is about the same and the SS is backed up by the LS platform market...which is virtually endless.

[autocross]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

I personally haven't been in the market for mods so I haven't really be in the know of what people are doing with the V8 6th Gens. I believe the general conscience is, intake and exhaust on these cars only enhance sound, power isn't going to be greatly effected. To get more power, you need a heads / cam combo. That or if you just want to go crazy, supercharge. The difference between the LT1 and the V6 is the aftermarket is ready to support it and it doesnt require multiple cams..Both are maxed out as far as boltons go.

I once again havent been looking and I intend on keeping my SS stock for a good while as the car is just over powered as is for my daily use - I can never use more than 25% of it without risking a infraction of some sort and my only real desire is for it to be a bit louder and lopier but otherwise Im really happy with the out the box performance, it will destroy my 99 Z28 which has a LID, Throttle Body, built 4L60E and would likely continue to do so even if I put a full exhaust on it... to put into perspective just how leagues different the SS is, My 99 Z28 will beat the 1LT V6 I had...it probably wouldn't slaughter it... but it would win...therefor even making my 99 marginally better the 6th Gen STOCK would still hold the advantage.

So I have a few ideas as to why more kids are into the mustangs than Camaro's and why not as many are modding...

#1 Until just recently, Mustangs could be had about $5 - $7k cheaper. Although until recently they werent as fast, they had a great exhaust note and were the affordable V8 of its time..you could have one at nearly the same cost of a V6 Camaro and given those two options, if someone wanted a heart pounding V8, which one is he going to pick?

#2 With the above stated, most of the younger crowd do not NEED 455 Horse Power but rather something sharp, loud and fun to show off in..they don't need to win every stop light race.. they just need to look good and sound good.

#3 Mustang carries a boy racer image where as the Camaro carries a heritage performance vehicle image.

#4 Mustang receives alot more advertisement.

So you see, we're looking at a market of drivers who are not too concerned with competitive numbers but want that thrill of a Heritage V8 with affordability -- This is where the Camaro kind of fails... kind of... rebates and incinitives during certain events or times of years makes up for this but the Mustang allowed you to walk out the door without a hastle with a quick car...and it didnt have to be as quick as a 455 HP machine to beat most of everything on the street, and be quite fun.

I personally feel the aftermarket is about the same and the SS is backed up by the LS platform market...which is virtually endless.

This is a very great reply. It isn’t often that someone hits the nail right on the head.

I think that boy-racer image is spot on. I see them running around all over he place, and just throwing wheels on an S550 makes it look like some teen racer car. No idea why, but that’s just how it looks. Do you agree?

How much better is the Camaro better than the mustang. I’d imagine there’s more to a Mustang than just looks. Whenever comparing the S550 to the Camaro, it always is shadowed by the camaros performance. But in the big picture, it doesn’t seem like you could reach the S550’s limits on public roads either?

I agree about these bolt ons. My old chevy suburban is running an 8.1L V8, and I threw a K&N intake on with dual 3.5” exhaust. Other than the insane exhaust note and hissing from the intake, the car’s throttle response is almost indistinguishable from how it was before