[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Did Evans run that Mustang too?

Didn't we learn our lesson from magazine articles/shops/tuners/ads already?

How much would this setup cost? If I had an 18 and took it to them, could they push it to similar numbers and let it leave the shop will full confidence that it'll last and be reliable? Or will they tell me it needs this and that extra to be on the safe side?

It will be reliable as long as you maintain it properly and and don’t drive it like an idiot. Keep it off the limiter (non issue with a properly tuned auto) and it should live barring a freak occurrence.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

It will be reliable as long as you maintain it properly and and don’t drive it like an idiot. Keep it off the limiter (non issue with a properly tuned auto) and it should live barring a freak occurrence.

Or a Cars and Coffee.

Just kidding, but it was just hanging out there....

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Not for nothin and take this however you want...but while I don't think you're a Mustang "fanboy", I do believe that you favor the Mustang. To what extent is unknown but becoming more and more clear. Your arguments are starting to sound more and more like SSFriendly back when he came up with that name so as to sound like he wasn't partial to the Mustang. Yet his colors showed when he spent the majority of his time discrediting the Camaro and defending the Mustang. Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong with having a favorite. Just don't sit here yanking our chains if that is really the case.

I don't think I've ever discredited anything about either of these cars that I didn't feel deserved it.

As for any favoritism . . . well, I'm not going to trade my S197 in because it's still fun to drive both around town and on the road courses (and I've still got a few more things I want to try out on it). But that means I'm no more likely to shop at the Ford store next time or under the bowtie. Doesn't even make the difference in which one I'd go to first.

I never would have claimed that the PP1 was a 1LE competitor. But if it helps to think of that more in the spirit of not being a serious competitor I'll be OK with that.

Thing is, I think there's a couple of people over on M6G who think I should trade my GT for a new 1LE.


FWIW, drag racing is the most well known aspect about any US Domestic car with V8 power, but it isn't the only one. I'm really a sports car person, so perhaps I'm more aware of the corner-carving roots that these particular cars have also had since the 1960's.


Norm

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

It will be reliable as long as you maintain it properly and and don’t drive it like an idiot. Keep it off the limiter (non issue with a properly tuned auto) and it should live barring a freak occurrence.

Just like all the many forced induction GT350s pushing over 800 to the wheels? Remember that debate?

I'm gonna say that it isn't reliable at those levels until there is more evidence and more people out there making those numbers safely on DD vehicles. Properly tuned or not there are physical limitations to those engines. And the entire "properly tuned" argument is just another excuse Mustang guys use when an engine fails. So instead of admitting it just couldn't handle that much boost or making that much hp, everyone just says it wasn't "properly tuned" or must've been an issue with bad gas or it hit the rev limiter.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I don't think I've ever discredited anything about either of these cars that I didn't feel deserved it.

As for any favoritism . . . well, I'm not going to trade my S197 in because it's still fun to drive both around town and on the road courses (and I've still got a few more things I want to try out on it). But that means I'm no more likely to shop at the Ford store next time or under the bowtie. Doesn't even make the difference in which one I'd go to first.

You're acting like we're gonna lynch you or something. I can tell by how carefully you worded everything that you do favor the Mustang over the Camaro. Otherwise you would have said you didn't...since you've never before seemed to have a problem disagreeing with certain things you thought were wrong. You just don't want to admit it because you think you'll lose credibility.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I never would have claimed that the PP1 was a 1LE competitor. But if it helps to think of that more in the spirit of not being a serious competitor I'll be OK with that.

And why wasn't it the competitor to the 1LE? Because it lost? It was the competitor to the 1LE. It didn't stand a chance. And I'm guessing a lot of people knew that. But that does not mean it wasn't the competitor.

And one minute these guys were all claiming that it was running high 11s bone stock and was 1 tenth slower than the M6 ZL1 and that with simple bolt-ons it'll beat A10 ZL1s but now all of a sudden everyone knew it wasn't the competitor for the SS 1LE and everyone knew it was gonna lose to the 1LE.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Thing is, I think there's a couple of people over on M6G who think I should trade my GT for a new 1LE.

Yea well apparently there are some of them who also think the 18 GT can beat Vettes, the 18 GT PP2 will have the A10 trans, and there are a lot of them who prefer a Mustang GT over a Corvette. So I wouldn't put stock into anything they say over there.

[End User]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

I bought it to get more connected with the car and the road with a manual trans.

Did you order your 2SS 1LE from the factory? If yes, how many weeks did it take?

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Just like all the many forced induction GT350s pushing over 800 to the wheels? Remember that debate?

I'm gonna say that it isn't reliable at those levels until there is more evidence and more people out there making those numbers safely on DD vehicles. Properly tuned or not there are physical limitations to those engines. And the entire "properly tuned" argument is just another excuse Mustang guys use when an engine fails. So instead of admitting it just couldn't handle that much boost or making that much hp, everyone just says it wasn't "properly tuned" or must've been an issue with bad gas or it hit the rev limiter. .

There are physical limitations with any motor so what? The rotating assembly has proven capable of 800whp since back in the Boss 302. How much attention you pay to keeping the motor alive will determine how long it lives. Run it to 7700 and smack the limiter if wheel slip throws the ECU off and sure you may crack the OPG’s. Fill up at Circle K and hope your getting 93 and you could pop a ring land.

I fill at the same station every time , that gas has never showed knock in a log. My car shifts at 71-7200 to keep it off the limiter and I am making far above what is considered safe for a gen 1. Now you can chalk it up to a magic motor if you want but for me it’s just understanding that there is a greater potential for damage and doing everything I can to protect against it.

[Syphon23]

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

What’s really funny, they don’t make a PP2 with auto.

Man.. there some nice good dudes over there, but most of them dont know anything.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

I wouldn't call this "very few mods" and they said they're having trouble ("gremlins") with the A10... so they probably messed up with the tune:

http://www.fordnxt.com/news/first-20...econd-barrier/

• BMR Suspension lowering springs

• DeatschWerks 1,000cc port fuel injectors

• DeatschWerks DW400 fuel pump in MAK-modified factory fuel hat

• JMS 17-inch drag wheels

• JMS FuelMax fuel pump voltage booster

• MAK cat-delete pipes

• Mickey Thompson tires

• ProCharger HO system

• Torsen differential

• UPR Products oil separator

• Velgen wheels (street)

Amazing how in 1 post we go from "blower only" to OMG 840 HP WITH A 142 TRAP!!!11!!11!!

You guys gotta stop it ... you're killing your credibility. Or don't stop, so we can continue enjoying your comedy.

haha, now Mustang guys are calling that list............"minor mods". Bwahahahahahaha. It gets better. I love fkng with these idiots. Btw, impossible that that mod list adds 400 hp to the baseline of a Mustang GT. Unless it's another one of those............."shop promotion" hero runs.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

I wouldn't call this "very few mods" and they said they're having trouble ("gremlins") with the A10... so they probably messed up with the tune:

http://www.fordnxt.com/news/first-20...econd-barrier/

• BMR Suspension lowering springs

• DeatschWerks 1,000cc port fuel injectors

• DeatschWerks DW400 fuel pump in MAK-modified factory fuel hat

• JMS 17-inch drag wheels

• JMS FuelMax fuel pump voltage booster

• MAK cat-delete pipes

• Mickey Thompson tires

• ProCharger HO system

• Torsen differential

• UPR Products oil separator

• Velgen wheels (street)

Amazing how in 1 post we go from "blower only" to OMG 840 HP WITH A 142 TRAP!!!11!!11!!

You guys gotta stop it ... you're killing your credibility. Or don't stop, so we can continue enjoying your comedy.

And btw. No way is that mod listing pumping out 840 hp unless they are dialing up 25 PSI and that was a one run hero dyno run. Not buying.

I can easily take my car back to Matt and say............I need to show 800 Hp on the dyno sheet. He'll do it. He'll pull timing, add timing, add fuel, whatever the hell he has to do to make it LOOK like I have 800 hp. These Mustang guys. Wow.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

And btw. No way is that mod listing pumping out 840 hp unless they are dialing up 25 PSI and that was a one run hero dyno run. Not buying.

I can easily take my car back to Matt and say............I need to show 800 Hp on the dyno sheet. He'll do it. He'll pull timing, add timing, add fuel, whatever the hell he has to do to make it LOOK like I have 800 hp. These Mustang guys. Wow.

have you run your car at the track by chance? if so what was your trap mph?

my car trapped 138 at 680whp and 3750 race weight. now at 740whp at only 10psi and 18deg timing and my car being around 3800 now I would expect it to trap at least 142. Now MAK's car is probably 4000 minimum so while 846whp might be slightly inflated its definitely making in the 800 ballpark at 10psi. a P1X would struggle to make 14psi maxxed out...im running a D1 FWIW.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

And btw. No way is that mod listing pumping out 840 hp unless they are dialing up 25 PSI and that was a one run hero dyno run. Not buying.

I can easily take my car back to Matt and say............I need to show 800 Hp on the dyno sheet. He'll do it. He'll pull timing, add timing, add fuel, whatever the hell he has to do to make it LOOK like I have 800 hp. These Mustang guys. Wow.

Sorry to disagree with you on this but...I would say it is quite possible. My friend's 15 GT with GT350 IM, OR LTs, and Paxton Novi 2200 with JLT cai at about 8 psi is making like 720 if not slightly more. I can't remember what it was at but before the JLT it was 714 to the wheels. The 18s have revised heads, a revised IM, and upgraded cams along with more compression. So I am pretty sure it can make over 800 to the wheels with that mod list...but I would be surprised if they don't have headers on it too. Anyway, I could see the 18s getting over 800 on a generous dyno. The driveshaft, axles, and engine internals are what I would worry about at those power levels.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

There are physical limitations with any motor so what? The rotating assembly has proven capable of 800whp since back in the Boss 302. How much attention you pay to keeping the motor alive will determine how long it lives. Run it to 7700 and smack the limiter if wheel slip throws the ECU off and sure you may crack the OPG’s. Fill up at Circle K and hope your getting 93 and you could pop a ring land.

I fill at the same station every time , that gas has never showed knock in a log. My car shifts at 71-7200 to keep it off the limiter and I am making far above what is considered safe for a gen 1. Now you can chalk it up to a magic motor if you want but for me it’s just understanding that there is a greater potential for damage and doing everything I can to protect against it.

Being "capable" of 800whp and actually lasting long enough to make it out the shop are completely different things. If it was THAT easy to make 800 to the wheels then everyone would have 800WHP DDs. But that ain't the case now is it? In fact, I have never seen one Mustang with even close to 800WHP at the track on a stock engine. Why is that? Again, we can go back to the debate on all these supercharged GT350s that are soo prevalent out there making over 800 to the wheels on the stock engine if you want. On the Gen 2 Coyote engines, I would say 700 is safe, 750 is pushing it, and at 800 you WILL break something no matter how good the tune or gas is. On the Gen 1 Coyotes I would subtract 50 from each of those categories.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

have you run your car at the track by chance? if so what was your trap mph?

my car trapped 138 at 680whp and 3750 race weight. now at 740whp at only 10psi and 18deg timing and my car being around 3800 now I would expect it to trap at least 142. Now MAK's car is probably 4000 minimum so while 846whp might be slightly inflated its definitely making in the 800 ballpark at 10psi. a P1X would struggle to make 14psi maxxed out...im running a D1 FWIW.

The only thing I question about the 846 number and the list is whether or not they have LTs on the car. I think with LTs and the list they could make well over 800. As I stated before, extra compression, revised heads, revised IM, and a revised more aggressive cam over the Gen 2 Coyote engines could mean a good bump with forced induction. If the Gen 2s can make over 700 (depending on the blower) then I wouldn't doubt that the Gen 3s can go over 800 with the same boost. I just think it would need catless LTs along with that list and I don't think there are enough examples of the 18s out there yet to say that they will last making those numbers.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

have you run your car at the track by chance? if so what was your trap mph?

my car trapped 138 at 680whp and 3750 race weight. now at 740whp at only 10psi and 18deg timing and my car being around 3800 now I would expect it to trap at least 142. Now MAK's car is probably 4000 minimum so while 846whp might be slightly inflated its definitely making in the 800 ballpark at 10psi. a P1X would struggle to make 14psi maxxed out...im running a D1 FWIW.

I don't drag race. I roll race.

And numbers can easily be made up without proof. My mod list is pretty decent, with no internals and I'm a true 740 at the wheels. No dyno trickery. That was at 15 psi btw.

I just don't buy these..............new claims. There is no proof. Where is the dyno sheet? Build sheet? Video? Anything? Nope, there is nothing. A 840 hp pull from basically just adding a charger is fkn ridiculous.