[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by hotlap

You’re saying that A8 Z06s come with a warning that it’s owners need to install additional coolers if they want to track?

My understanding is that any overheating the A8 Z06 has had wasn’t by omission. I.e. You’re on your own. It was actually a product performance issue.

“Please be advised that Z06 models with the 8-speed automatic transmission have ambient temperature limitations and strong potential for engine and coolant overheating on an 86 degrees F (30 degrees C and above) day. Anytime the maximum recommended temperatures are reached in any condition, the Driver Information Center will provide warnings. Once these warnings are received, several cool-down laps should be performed to bring operating temperatures back to normal so that aggressive track driving can be resumed.”

https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam...tion-guide.pdf

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by hotlap

There is only one reason the PP2 doesn't have coolers. Warranty liability.

Go ahead and track your car. We don't recommend it. You are on your own.

I think you're on to something for sure, quite astute. We try and look at things from an enthusiast mind set so much, sometimes the obvious answer is right there, and usually it is a business reason and not anything else.

$44K and some change is a competitive price for sure for the PP2. It is missing some great things like coolers and HUD. Coolers could be added though, as much as that sucks to do at least that is now an option for under $45K.

I dont mean this to sound back handed, but it is about time Ford offered a track capable Mustang variant that is actually affordable and obtainable. The GT350 is a great car, but out of warranty ownership is likely going to be expensive and its entry price is a lot to stomach for a Mustang. It has been frustrating for me as an enthusiast to see what Ford has offered this Gen as far as the GT goes. Looks like the S550 has many years left though, so maybe Ford intends to slowly trickle out the performance upgrades to keep sales up over a long generation cycle.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

$44K and some change is a competitive price for sure for the PP2. It is missing some great things like coolers and HUD. Coolers could be added though, as much as that sucks to do at least that is now an option for under $45K.

Ford knows a tiny fraction of people are actually going to need coolers on these cars. It absolutely sucks for those that want to track (and own a mustang) on a regular basis, but it's far and away the best business decision for the PP1.

Now the PP2....ehh, with what likely will be much smaller volumes than the PP1 take rate, they should have just ate it and put the GD coolers on.

[1295/SS]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Nope, I get that women like the car that I drive...which I take no issues with.

The "girly" car reputation comes from camaro owners who seem to like only other men lusting after their cars rather than women.

The idea that a car is lesser because it's eye candy to the opposite sex is a bit insulting to women if you ask me.

I find it odd that camaro owners take pride in any of this. Congrats, you own a car that women ignore.

Its a lesser car because of the performance. If you think woman ignore the car you're delusional. They prefer to own the stang because its more of a girl's car. Odd that you can't comprehend the difference. They look at you as just like them..........Girly.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Funny, I have yet to see them test the PP1 against the 1SS…or the 1SS against the 1LE. As it stands, it appears the PP1 turns a somewhat close laptime to what the 1SS has done in the past. Anytime you put a car that underperforms against a track oriented car…you are going to get “unwanted” motions. I’m curious to see if the motortrend folks would have used the same verbiage if they pitted the 1SS against the PP1.

If you wanted to track the PP1, there is no need to do anything unless you want to make it better. The only people that will need coolers on these are those that push the cars hard for a long duration. Most people won’t.

From what I understand, and please correct me if I am wrong, but the pre-'18 GT didn't even have sensors. That means we can't say how much if any damage was being done by high temps. I think the jury is still out on how well '18's will handle track duty before limp mode kicks in.

You could be right in your previous statement about the drivetrain being up for the task. We will have to wait and see.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Ford knows a tiny fraction of people are actually going to need coolers on these cars. It absolutely sucks for those that want to track (and own a mustang) on a regular basis, but it's far and away the best business decision for the PP1.

Now the PP2....ehh, with what likely will be much smaller volumes than the PP1 take rate, they should have just ate it and put the GD coolers on.

Agreed!!!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

I'm curious, what should this new PP2 be compared to if not the 1LE?

So because the GT and the GT PP1 were so lame the Ford camp had to try again with the PP2? Is that it? I'm not saying not to compare it to the SS 1LE. I'm saying don't recite this bullshit about how the PP1 all of a sudden isn't the natural competitor to the SS 1LE just because it lost horribly. The PP1 IS the natural competitor. It just couldn't keep up. So now they need a PP2 in addition to the PP1.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

From what I understand, and please correct me if I am wrong, but the pre-'18 GT didn't even have sensors. That means we can't say how much if any damage was being done by high temps. I think the jury is still out on how well '18's will handle track duty before limp mode kicks in.

You could be right in your previous statement about the drivetrain being up for the task. We will have to wait and see.

I'm not sure if this is the info you're looking for but my 15 GT had temp sensors on the back of the heads and an IAT sensor...and knock sensors. The dash could display the CHT, IAT, and AFR along with vacuum/boost and other things. I accidentally disconnected the CHT sensors when I did my GT350 IM/TB install and it set the fan to run on high and gave me a CEL. I guess it was a fail safe since the ECU can't read the CHT with the sensor disconnected to it runs the fan on high as if the engine is overheating to be on the safe side.

[Godfatha]

All this bickering is silly. The Camaro SS is a better performing car than the Mustang GT. End of story. This thread wasn't created because we wanted to compare trunk space or sales numbers.

All of these lame excuses about why the Mustang is slower is getting dull. Take your "L" and go home.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by 1295/SS

Its a lesser car because of the performance. If you think woman ignore the car you're delusional. They prefer to own the stang because its more of a girl's car. Odd that you can't comprehend the difference. They look at you as just like them..........Girly.

Women prefer the mustang because it’s more attractive to them. To say that makes the mustang more “girly” is absurd. If more women are attracted to man, does that then make that man a “girly man”?

Even with that analogy, you still won’t understand though. You (and others) rhetoric on the subject is an insult to the male sex.

Originally Posted by ST1LE

From what I understand, and please correct me if I am wrong, but the pre-'18 GT didn't even have sensors. That means we can't say how much if any damage was being done by high temps. I think the jury is still out on how well '18's will handle track duty before limp mode kicks in.

You could be right in your previous statement about the drivetrain being up for the task. We will have to wait and see.

Pre 18’s do have diff and trans sensors (I believe they came to be in 16’). As for damage being done by high temps, I have heard nothing on the subject. There were a few rumblings of frequent changing of diff fluid, but (with the exception of a few extreme cases) it has largely been a moot point.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

So because the GT and the GT PP1 were so lame the Ford camp had to try again with the PP2? Is that it? I'm not saying not to compare it to the SS 1LE. I'm saying don't recite this bullshit about how the PP1 all of a sudden isn't the natural competitor to the SS 1LE just because it lost horribly. The PP1 IS the natural competitor. It just couldn't keep up. So now they need a PP2 in addition to the PP1.

If the PP1 is the natural competitor, what does that make the PP2? What is the PP2’s natural competitor?

You are making the arguments about cars and what you think are their “natural” competition as they are fixed. The f-body Z28 matched up with the base model GT, and the SS matched up with the SVT cobra. Does that mean the Z28 still needs to match up with the base GT? Do you not hear how absurd your argument sounds?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

“Please be advised that Z06 models with the 8-speed automatic transmission have ambient temperature limitations and strong potential for engine and coolant overheating on an 86 degrees F (30 degrees C and above) day. Anytime the maximum recommended temperatures are reached in any condition, the Driver Information Center will provide warnings. Once these warnings are received, several cool-down laps should be performed to bring operating temperatures back to normal so that aggressive track driving can be resumed.”

https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam...tion-guide.pdf

Engineering omission (PP2) compared to engineering limitation (A8 Z06)

Do you see the difference?

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Funny, I have yet to see them test the PP1 against the 1SS…or the 1SS against the 1LE. As it stands, it appears the PP1 turns a somewhat close laptime to what the 1SS has done in the past. Anytime you put a car that underperforms against a track oriented car…you are going to get “unwanted” motions. I’m curious to see if the motortrend folks would have used the same verbiage if they pitted the 1SS against the PP1.

If you wanted to track the PP1, there is no need to do anything unless you want to make it better. The only people that will need coolers on these are those that push the cars hard for a long duration. Most people won’t.

But MotorTrend DID do a comparison between a non-1LE SS (a 2SS) against the M4. If you haven't watched it, spoiler alert: the 2SS did NOT have unwanted body motions and vague steering. In fact, they declared the 2SS the winner over the M4 (even though the numbers were very close) precisely because of the steering, chassis, and handling characteristics of the 2SS (and they liked the engine more in the 2SS as well).

So, I disagree with your point. You CAN put a car against a track variant, and not have that HUGE amount of body issues. Just put the regular SS against a 1LE. As you said, the PP1 and regular SS are close in terms of lap times, but the regular SS does not have the handling and steering issues of the PP1.

If you are going to have a performance pack and add suspension bits to make the handling better, do a better job. It should have quick turn-in, precision, and feedback in the steering. It should not have too much unwanted body movements in the transitions. The PP1 checks NONE of these boxes. Anytime that you initiate a turn in a car, then have to adjust the steering back in the other direction because of the body flopping around, it is a fail.

The regular SS (non-1LE) doesn't do that. The steering has instant turn-in, extreme precision, and good feedback. That is one of the reasons the 1LE is soooo good. It starts with a great performing car to begin with, and then adds to it to take it up a notch.

[1295/SS]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Women prefer the mustang because it’s more attractive to them. To say that makes the mustang more “girly” is absurd. If more women are attracted to man, does that then make that man a “girly man”?

Even with that analogy, you still won’t understand though. You (and others) rhetoric on the subject is an insult to the male sex. ?

Keep reaching. Girls like pretty flowers too that most men don't even notice. So, do i have to explain why that is as well? No offense meant if you like pretty flowers as well.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Follow Ford's lead and put DOT R-comp tires on a 1LE?

my thoughts also, maybe toss in the DSSV shocks => 1LE comp addition > Mustang GT PP2