[R.C. Collins]

Originally Posted by shaffe

So yeah Ford is more willing to have something for every enthusiast. Even if it's a small niche Ford is willing to offer something. hell they are even offering an ST version of the Edge.

I think the Camaro 2.0T covers the under $25k market very well. The V6 1LE covers the under $35k market, the SS variants cover the under $50k market, and the ZL1 models cover the sub $70k market. So i think they offer a performance car (in one model, no less) for 90% of the enthusiast car-buying public. No, no performance hatchbacks. But similarly-priced Camaros will outgun the Focus ST and RS. As for the ST Edge...ooooooh! Can't wait for it's recently announced Mach 1 electric hybrid big brother SUV. Could a Boss Explorer be next? Just pokin' fun.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by Syphon23

Yeah someone was saying something about the 18 Mustang beating C7 and I'm just like no.

Haha, are u fkng kidding me? Hahahahahahaha. Yea, maybe a tuned one with E85 or Meth and a tire. That's almost as comical as them saying the GT will run down the Zl1 with just fuel/tune/tire. smh. You have to admit, Mustang owners are good for one thing. Comedy.

That Lund run got the whole Mustang community in a frenzy. Now, they all believe the GT is a 11 sec out the box car off the showroom floor.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

yeah, It's called 2002.

It was the deciding factor for what performance car you bought in 2003-2009

This kind of comment just shows how stupid Mustang people are. The Mustang is and has always been, Ford's Halo car. The few years of a Ford GT no one can afford is irrelevant.

The Corvette meanwhile, has always outright destroyed the Mustang in every metric you can pull up, period. The one exception, which I will give you, was the 13-14 GT500...but that was only in a 1/4 mile run... if you asked the Mustang to turn right or left, well....that ended badly for it.

So, why bring the Corvette into the discussion? Because the Camaro has always played second fiddle to that car, until recently. GM cleared house, tanked several underperforming brands, rebuilt itself.....and voila....we got a new Camaro....that outsold the Mustang for several years in a row, until the Mustang rebounded for a few years.

And the Camaro ran neck and neck most years, winning some, losing some, in the past with the Mustang, despite selling more additional cars of the same setup under the Pontiac badge. In some years, the Firebird was actually the better car even too...

So to sit here and talk about 2002 like it's somehow important, it's not. The truth is, the Mustang has always been 2nd fiddle to GM when it comes to sports cars...

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

it wasnt just the sound man be honest. It was the whole experience of driving it. It is more than the sum of its parts.

In all the racing aspects, the GT350R lost....to the street version of the ZL1. If it had been raced against it's real competitor, the 1LE, it would have been destroyed even still.

I'm sorry, but you can keep your "feelings" and I'll just take the win...

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by R.C. Collins

I think the Camaro 2.0T covers the under $25k market very well. The V6 1LE covers the under $35k market, the SS variants cover the under $50k market, and the ZL1 models cover the sub $70k market. So i think they offer a performance car (in one model, no less) for 90% of the enthusiast car-buying public. No, no performance hatchbacks. But similarly-priced Camaros will outgun the Focus ST and RS. As for the ST Edge...ooooooh! Can't wait for it's recently announced Mach 1 electric hybrid big brother SUV. Could a Boss Explorer be next? Just pokin' fun.

Same can be said for mustang with one model covering a broad range. And yes similarly price Camaro's outgun the ST cars. You know what those similar priced Camaro's don't do though? Entice the buyers that love hot hatches. They don't cover the people that need 4 doors and still want performance & oddly enough there are people that like FWD/AWD performance cars lol

But like you said all in fun here

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Same can be said for mustang with one model covering a broad range. And yes similarly price Camaro's outgun the ST cars. You know what those similar priced Camaro's don't do though? Entice the buyers that love hot hatches. They don't cover the people that need 4 doors and still want performance & oddly enough there are people that like FWD/AWD performance cars lol

But like you said all in fun here

Well, they went stupid with the rebadged Commodore to Pontiac G8 to Chevy SS overseas to now Chevy SS here in the US for four doors. That didn't sell well at all, namely due to overpricing it... that's the single reason it failed to sell well....

As for the whole hot hatch/FWD tidbit....I'll be honest... I really don't care about those cars one iota... they don't sell in big numbers, they are an even bigger niche market here in the US than our V8 guys....and most people overseas won't buy them anyways...

Ford did very well by offering the Focus SVT and following it up with solid cars in the Fiesta ST/Focus ST/RS.....but really, those are still expensive cars in their own right as well...and at some point, you just have to pick battles. I'd rather see GM move the Impala back to RWD and give us a true SS model...

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Well, they went stupid with the rebadged Commodore to Pontiac G8 to Chevy SS overseas to now Chevy SS here in the US for four doors. That didn't sell well at all, namely due to overpricing it... that's the single reason it failed to sell well....

They never wanted it to "sell well". They just wanted to keep the commodore factory at capacity. Since the car was a true 80s-90s era rebadge, it was free money for Chevrolet. The high price kept demand low to ensure they didn't exceed factory ability to keep up.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

In all the racing aspects, the GT350R lost....to the street version of the ZL1. If it had been raced against it's real competitor, the 1LE, it would have been destroyed even still.

I'm sorry, but you can keep your "feelings" and I'll just take the win...

That is the entire point of MT's H2H. Otherwise you would have a 3:00 video of Randy driving both cars with no microphone and a spec sheet/performance #'s.

There is more to a car than that...maybe not on Camaro6G... but pretty much everywhere else.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

They never wanted it to "sell well". They just wanted to keep the commodore factory at capacity. Since the car was a true 80s-90s era rebadge, it was free money for Chevrolet. The high price kept demand low to ensure they didn't exceed factory ability to keep up.

Oh, I know all too well about that angle... but it was never going to sell well here anyways because of the price. I mean, when I can get into an SRT-8 Charger for the same price, why would I buy the SS?

Faster, bigger, etc... I just would have like GM to try and make it somewhat competitive....because I did love the G8 GXP...and still loved the Chevy SS for what it was..

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

That is the entire point of MT's H2H. Otherwise you would have a 3:00 video of Randy driving both cars with no microphone and a spec sheet/performance #'s.

There is more to a car than that...maybe not on Camaro6G... but pretty much everywhere else.

Give it a rest man, it's done and played out already.... In every performance metric, the ZL1 won.... pick one...it won...

Now, if you say, well which color did you like better.....well shit... I love the blue on the GT350R... those are my feelings....

Everyone likes different things...but it's like me saying, okay...you won 10 events out of 10...but because I feel like Charlie did better than you did in most of the events, I'll give him the win....

That's what they're doing in the H2H.... and the irony here is this....when they do compare the ZL1-1LE to the GT350R, if Ford even has the balls to let them....we'll see them flip flop...

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Oh, I know all too well about that angle... but it was never going to sell well here anyways because of the price. I mean, when I can get into an SRT-8 Charger for the same price, why would I buy the SS?

Faster, bigger, etc... I just would have like GM to try and make it somewhat competitive....because I did love the G8 GXP...and still loved the Chevy SS for what it was..

My single biggest regret was not buying a G8 GT in 2008 when I had the chance.

Of all the automotive purchases I had the opportunity at..(including a 20K mile 2013 ZL1 auto for $34,000)..the one that I kick myself the most for is not getting a G8.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Give it a rest man, it's done and played out already.... In every performance metric, the ZL1 won.... pick one...it won...

Now, if you say, well which color did you like better.....well shit... I love the blue on the GT350R... those are my feelings....

Everyone likes different things...but it's like me saying, okay...you won 10 events out of 10...but because I feel like Charlie did better than you did in most of the events, I'll give him the win....

That's what they're doing in the H2H.... and the irony here is this....when they do compare the ZL1-1LE to the GT350R, if Ford even has the balls to let them....we'll see them flip flop...

Agreed. The metrics clearly gave the Zl1 the win. The feelings gave the R the win.

I agree. No matter what metrics you want to compare the 2, you won't find 1 where the R comes out on top. And if it does, it's by milliseconds. Which will relate in the 1LE destroying the R considering the 1LE beats the Zl1 so.

But anyhow, we know what's going on over here. The Ford camp and all of their fanboys are waiting for the 500 to drop. That's their last hope.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

So the MY18 mustang is a drivers race with the 6th gen camaro, but only slightly faster than a 15-17? So that makes the 6th gen only slightly faster than a 15-17 as well. Cool.

At it's best and fastest run, the A10 GT has tested slower than the best/fastest M6 SS run and A8 SS run. It is what we consider a driver's race. But it is still slower. You seem to have a tough time admitting that.

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Every time it is proven the Mustang GT is outperformed by the Camaro SS in every way, the Mustang guys change the subject to sales.

Classic!

because while they're getting walked they can comfort themselves in the fact that there are a lot more Mustangs out there getting walked also...

Originally Posted by kttxz06

It's actually easy to find. Google.

68% of all Mustang buyers are male. 73% of all Camaro buyers are male. So, he was right. More women buy Mustangs. Now STFU.

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

not sales , but the Mustang won this H2H and performance #'s werent the reason.

That is the ONLY thing the Mustang has won at, lol!!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

ROFLMAO!!! Man are you funny.

How do you feel about this? On the same price point, there is no V8 Mustang that can beat any V8 Camaro in any performance metric. When starting at the base model, and then going up 1 trim at a time, the V8 Mustang will lose every performance metric to the V8 Camaro. When both cars are equally optioned, there is no V8 Mustang that can beat a V8 Camaro in anything performance related.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

How do you feel about this? On the same price point, there is no V8 Mustang that can beat any V8 Camaro in any performance metric. When starting at the base model, and then going up 1 trim at a time, the V8 Mustang will lose every performance metric to the V8 Camaro. When both cars are equally optioned, there is no V8 Mustang that can beat a V8 Camaro in anything performance related.

Court is adjourned.