[Syphon23]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

To be fair, Syphon23 went over there and stirred them up, along with a few others.

All I did was state facts not my fault they don't like it. The truth often hurts .

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

For a fact

Hey, I was wrong, but I wasn't wrong by much. The Ecoboost Mustang failed to outsell the V8 by what....4500 cars? It still accounted for roughly 40% of total sales....

And guess what? It now accounts for more than 60% of total sales ...

Originally Posted by shaffe

While a fair opinion, when you read reviews of the ST cars, reviewers loved them. Owners loved them. I test drove a Focus ST in late summer and man that thing was an absolute blast to drive. If baby #1 wasn't on the way I would most likely have bought it.

I think it's awesome Dodge hellcats everything lol and even offers sporty/performance versions of their cars. For the most part just sharing parts already available so why not. GM has one of the best parts bins in the world. They could totally make a hot hatch, or raptor fighter if they wanted

I've never heard much negatives about the Fiesta or the Focus, at least the current iterations. However, there is zero way I'd rent one, much less own one. They're just too small for me. Doesn't make them any less of a decent purchase though for people who do like them!

I, too, am thrilled about the Hellcat everything approach. Love it in fact....which GM would get back to doing that as well... with the caveat of it actually being true performance. No more of those bogus SS badges on cars that should never have had it in the first place....

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Oh, haha. I don't visit over there, so I would have no idea. Just reading their YouTube comments and FB comments are enough for me to know what goes on over there on a daily.

But, you have to admit. Anytime one forum is led by thePill, they kind of deserve it. It's the blind leading the blind over there.

From what I've seen they have him on a shadow ban and moderated replies only. He can only view, not post.

Even the Mustang guys have cast him out.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

kind of early to be drunk...even in Texas.

There's absolutely nothing to be drunk about, unless we're celebrating our win....

The only thing the GT350R won, was the "sound" contest.....and truthfully, the Mustang has ALWAYS had a much better factory sound.... I'll wholly agree there...

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by R.C. Collins

No, G.M. doesn't have a hot hatch (i can't remember them ever having one) to compete with Ford. Fiat Chrysler doesn't either. The only reason the Focus RS exists is because of the hot hatch craze in Europe, and Ford does a lot of business there, so it makes sense for them to invest in the R&D. We're lucky to have one finally make it to shore. And it looks like Ford is finally owning up to the head gasket issue.

But to say G.M. doesn't care as much about the enthusiast demo is utter nonsense. Where is Ford's competitor to the Corvette? No such beast exists, unless you try to ply the $500,000 Ford GT as such.

You're right Ford doesn't have anything to compete with the Vette. Nor does GM have anything to compete with the GT (For now)

So yeah I probably didn't use the best wording in my original post but it does seem to me Ford is more willing to have something for every enthusiast. Even if it's a small niche Ford is willing to offer something. hell they are even offering an ST version of the Edge.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Where is GM's option for the Fiesta ST, Focus ST, Focus RS? If GM cared about the smaller demo of performance enthusiasts I think they would have something for the hot hatch market. Where is the Raptor competitor?

GM clearly has the Pony car part nailed and the Vette. But other than that IMO they don't care about the enthusiast demographic as much

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

There's absolutely nothing to be drunk about, unless we're celebrating our win....

The only thing the GT350R won, was the "sound" contest.....and truthfully, the Mustang has ALWAYS had a much better factory sound.... I'll wholly agree there...

it wasnt just the sound man be honest. It was the whole experience of driving it. It is more than the sum of its parts.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

kind of early to be drunk...even in Texas.

Originally Posted by kttxz06

No, but even as high as I am right now. My eyes weren't deceiving me cus it looked like a beat down to me. Or, should I believe all of the Mustang fanboys excuses...............let me go down the list.

The R doesn't line up with the Zl1.
The Zl1 was supercharged.
This wasn't a real race.
It was staged.

And there are about 1000 other excuses. But not ONE..............Not ONE Mustang guy actually came out and admitted the Zl1 is just a better car. Period. End of story. And nooooooooooooooooooooow you know why we fuk with ya'll all the time.

HAHAHA, it's NEVER too early for us.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

There's absolutely nothing to be drunk about, unless we're celebrating our win....

The only thing the GT350R won, was the "sound" contest.....and truthfully, the Mustang has ALWAYS had a much better factory sound.... I'll wholly agree there...

Agreed too. The R does sound glorious. But, only for a second as you zoom by in the Zl1. Then the view of the open road takes it's place.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by Syphon23

All I did was state facts not my fault they don't like it. The truth often hurts .

Haha, you trolled the Mustang forums? Haha. I love it. Keep it up. They are like a kitten playing with a string.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

No, but even as high as I am right now. My eyes weren't deceiving me cus it looked like a beat down to me. Or, should I believe all of the Mustang fanboys excuses...............let me go down the list.

So you wanted the mustang fanboys to disagree with a review that declared a mustang the victor? And you're surprised?

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

So you wanted the mustang fanboys to disagree with a review that declared a mustang the victor? And you're surprised?

So wait. I'm confused now. Is the Mustang a track car now? haha. Or is it whatever you want it to be on that particular day? Should we bring the Zl1 1LE into the picture? Cus honestly, that's what the R lines up with. We really don't want to go there.

In a drag race, your top of the model GT gets beat down by the Zl1. On a track, it gets it's ass handed to it by the 1LE.

Court is adjourned.

[Syphon23]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Haha, you trolled the Mustang forums? Haha. I love it. Keep it up. They are like a kitten playing with a string.

Yeah someone was saying something about the 18 Mustang beating C7 and I'm just like no.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

So wait. I'm confused now. Is the Mustang a track car now? haha. Or is it whatever you want it to be on that particular day? Should we bring the Zl1 1LE into the picture? Cus honestly, that's what the R lines up with. We really don't want to go there.

ROFLMAO!!! Man are you funny.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Ive never driven the SS but I have driven the GT aggressively and it does not feel like that. That is known as hyperbole. Is it as planted as the SS unlikely as the SS can produce slightly better lap times , but the Mustang drives very nicely on back roads.

If you want to keep using that one description by Jonny as how the mustang feels thats fine...but stop defending the terrible visibility and other design negatives of the Camaro that everyone who has ever tested the car agrees upon as "people just need to learn to adjust the mirrors" and are nitpicking.

First of all, I have not defended the visibility issue. I agree that there is one, and it bothers some folks, but not everyone. I don't have any issue with it, but if others do, buy another car. And from an auto manufacturer's perspective, GM would be wise to address the issue, because it might make for more sales. From a personal issue, I don't have a problem with it. I can see out of it just fine. I could care less if Ford or Chevy sells more pony cars. Car sales are the last thing that add/detracts from my enjoyment of the driving experience. So, I have never argued about visibility. You either are bothered by it or not. What's to talk about?

But as for the handling, I have not driven an '18, but have had many experiences driving the GT in both base and PP trim in the S550 (non '18 refresh) forms. The steering is vague and body motion is an issue, not just compared to the Camaro, but compared to Toyota and Honda's Camry and Accord. Compared to a BMW, forget about it...

And, you can clearly see in the video the '18 has more body movement that I have seen in any H2H, by far. Keep in mind, it's not just about lap times, as you can put aggressive tires on a floppy car, and get pretty good lap times. I don't care too much for lap times, as much as I care for how the car responds and how it feeds back to the drive, and how it feels overall. Why? Because I live in a river valley with windy back roads that are similar to the tail of the dragon. I have to drive these road to get to and from my house to get to anywhere. So for me personally, handling characteristics are a huge part of driving enjoyment. If I lived in a place with flat straight road, perhaps I may not care as much, and I am sure this is the case for tons of folks. I am fortunate to live with so many awesome canyon carving type roads.

But given my situation, I can have a BMW M3 like handling, with a V8 engine at USA prices. If mustang was as tied down in the handling department, I would consider one. But every S550 Mustang I drove around on the back roads is a joke (in terms of handling). It reminds me more of old school pony car handling of the 70's rather than 2018 M3 type handling characteristics. If Chevy can do it, so can Ford. They just chose not to, except for the GT350. Which makes it even more infuriating that the '18 didn't make the handling feel more like the GT350. They did it once (with the 350), and they can offset the development costs of the GT350 by putting more of the tech that made that a great handling car, into the GT. Chevy does it. If you get and SS with the 1LE, you get the ZL1 suspension (and MRC tuning). Why can't the '18 address these issues? Why is the PP1 so floppy?

From the specs that were released from the PP2, it looks like that may address the issue, as the springs and sway bars are significantly upgraded. The tires will help the lap times more than anything else, but like I said, I don't sweat the actual times much. I am more interested in immediate turn-in, precision in the steering, and feedback in the steering. I would like to see the PP2 get up to speed with these things, and the formula looks correct. But, it looked correct with the '18 refresh in general, and that turned out to be a big disappointment. So who knows?