[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

At 50k not many people want a car that has a "mess" with the steering, a phonebook waterbed feel, and still the slowest 1/4 of the herd.

and suprisingly more people choose that car over the car with "world class" performance that equates to .1 in the 1/4 mile and a fraction of a second on a road course. maybe Mr. Wyndham will come in and explain why that is.

....and why its been that way for but a handful of years since 1965.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

and suprisingly more people choose that car over the car with "world class" performance that equates to .1 in the 1/4 mile and a fraction of a second on a road course. maybe Mr. Wyndham will come in and explain why that is.

....and why its been that way for but a handful of years since 1965.

Its explained a few posts back, but nice troll of a post man.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

and suprisingly more people choose that car over the car with "world class" performance that equates to .1 in the 1/4 mile and a fraction of a second on a road course. maybe Mr. Wyndham will come in and explain why that is.

....and why its been that way for but a handful of years since 1965.

How bout the majority of ALL (Camaro, Mustang, Challenger) buyers don't buy a performance model to begin with. I just read Al O. mention the 2.0T makes up about 30% of volume each month (just behind the V6). I can guarantee it is a similar spread for the Mustang and definitely the Challenger. So in reality you would need to compare take rates on the SS vs GT vs 392 Dodges, which you will never find complete data for that anyway. So arguing it from either side is worthless.


But on a side note, you do have this...and let's be honest. There are women who like performance, but there obviously aren't as many who just like "the look" of performance.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...men-in-us.html

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by MazzaBL

Fair point, although I did say for every price point, not every type of vehicle. Maybe GM just doesn’t see a big enough US market to produce a hot hatch, who knows. My point was, ford is like the associate at work that does the bare minimum to get by and keep their job, whereas GM is the associate that goes above and beyond to get the job done.

That you did lol, just trying to keep the conversation going lol

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Crazy, the S550 mustang continues to destroy the camaro in sales. It seems the public doesn’t seem to feel that “has a "mess" with the steering, a phonebook waterbed feel”. Crazy, right?

LMFAO!!!!!! Are you seriously going to go there with sales? Everyone here knows that the Mustang wins based on selling low end models. If you compared EXCLUSIVELY V8 models only, I would contend that the Camaro wins that market.

AND, I can tell you for a fact that win Ford announced the Ecoboost Mustang, that particular option made up MOST of their sales that first year. Especially when people could get a tune and whip a GT like a scalded dog...

Lastly, Ford wins the annual truck sale each year because they continue to sell base models dirt cheap. They outsold the Silverado/Sierra model by about 70k trucks for 2017.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Where is GM's option for the Fiesta ST, Focus ST, Focus RS? If GM cared about the smaller demo of performance enthusiasts I think they would have something for the hot hatch market. Where is the Raptor competitor?

GM clearly has the Pony car part nailed and the Vette. But other than that IMO they don't care about the enthusiast demographic as much

About the only one in that group that I'd call a true performance car is the Focus RS. The ST is decent, but its nothing to write home about. To answer your question, the last 5-6 years, GM has done nothing with the small econobox performance market. Essentially, since the Cruze came around, they've dropped any efforts to make a new sport econobox.

No one has a Raptor competitor. Not GM, not Dodge, not Toyota, not Nissan. I don't find this to be a real issue, as the Raptor is arguably in my opinion, Ford's best creation in the last 30 years. It is one of the very (like 2) things I would legitimately buy Ford no questions asked....

Would I love to see one? Sure....but again, who's buying it? Think about it this way....Dodge has done everything under the sun with a Hellcat setup....the Charger, the Challenger, it stopped building the Viper because the Hellcat cars were cheaper and faster.....and they put it in the Grand Cherokee too....even SRT-8'd a Durango..... but they haven't even so much as batted an eye at the Ram...

They just don't sell...

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by MazzaBL

Congrats, all that proves is that ford is selling more base model mustangs to 16 year old girls just getting their license.

I know you have the data to back that up so I'll wait while you go find it.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

How bout the majority of ALL (Camaro, Mustang, Challenger) buyers don't buy a performance model to begin with. I just read Al O. mention the 2.0T makes up about 30% of volume each month (just behind the V6). I can guarantee it is a similar spread for the Mustang and definitely the Challenger. So in reality you would need to compare take rates on the SS vs GT vs 392 Dodges, which you will never find complete data for that anyway. So arguing it from either side is worthless.


But on a side note, you do have this...and let's be honest. There are women who like performance, but there obviously aren't as many who just like "the look" of performance.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...men-in-us.html

At least for the 2015MY, the take rate for the 5.0 was almost 40%. EB sold far more than the V6 which likely explains why the dropped the 6cyl.

Official S550 Production Figures
Keep in mind, this is for US cars only

2015
Total Produced (USA): 110,648
Total Manuals (All Engines): 21,797
Total Automatics (All Engines): 88,851

Total 5.0's: 43,862
Total Auto 5.0: 35,221
Total Manual 5.0: 8,641

Total Ecoboost: 39,264
Total Eco Manual: 7,735
Total Eco Auto: 31,529

Total V6: 27,522
Total V6 Auto: 22,100
Total V6 Manual: 5,422

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

....and why its been that way for but a handful of years since 1965.

Handful of years?

The Camaro won more than just a few years....and the sad part here is this....that the Camaro has to share sales with the Firebird/Trans-Am for a vast majority of it's life.

The Mustang has always been Ford's Corvette. It shared a platform briefly with the Capri, but it has always been Ford Mustang essentially. The Camaro meanwhile was shared with Pontiac, where it split sales routinely with it..

From 1996-2001, they built almost 188,000 Firebirds....on top of the almost 289,000 Camaros....

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Its explained a few posts back, but nice troll of a post man.

no, Mazza dribbled some nonsense about lower trim levels and brand loyalty and then had a fantasy about 16yo girls and Mustangs.

Brand loyal 16yo girls who just got their licenses....

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

At least for the 2015MY, the take rate for the 5.0 was almost 40%. EB sold far more than the V6 which likely explains why the dropped the 6cyl.

Official S550 Production Figures
Keep in mind, this is for US cars only

2015
Total Produced (USA): 110,648
Total Manuals (All Engines): 21,797
Total Automatics (All Engines): 88,851

Total 5.0's: 43,862
Total Auto 5.0: 35,221
Total Manual 5.0: 8,641

Total Ecoboost: 39,264
Total Eco Manual: 7,735
Total Eco Auto: 31,529

Total V6: 27,522
Total V6 Auto: 22,100
Total V6 Manual: 5,422

have the Camaro #'s?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

LMFAO!!!!!! Are you seriously going to go there with sales? Everyone here knows that the Mustang wins based on selling low end models. If you compared EXCLUSIVELY V8 models only, I would contend that the Camaro wins that market.

AND, I can tell you for a fact that win Ford announced the Ecoboost Mustang, that particular option made up MOST of their sales that first year. Especially when people could get a tune and whip a GT like a scalded dog...

Lastly, Ford wins the annual truck sale each year because they continue to sell base models dirt cheap. They outsold the Silverado/Sierra model by about 70k trucks for 2017.





About the only one in that group that I'd call a true performance car is the Focus RS. The ST is decent, but its nothing to write home about. To answer your question, the last 5-6 years, GM has done nothing with the small econobox performance market. Essentially, since the Cruze came around, they've dropped any efforts to make a new sport econobox.

No one has a Raptor competitor. Not GM, not Dodge, not Toyota, not Nissan. I don't find this to be a real issue, as the Raptor is arguably in my opinion, Ford's best creation in the last 30 years. It is one of the very (like 2) things I would legitimately buy Ford no questions asked....

Would I love to see one? Sure....but again, who's buying it? Think about it this way....Dodge has done everything under the sun with a Hellcat setup....the Charger, the Challenger, it stopped building the Viper because the Hellcat cars were cheaper and faster.....and they put it in the Grand Cherokee too....even SRT-8'd a Durango..... but they haven't even so much as batted an eye at the Ram...

They just don't sell...

While a fair opinion, when you read reviews of the ST cars, reviewers loved them. Owners loved them. I test drove a Focus ST in late summer and man that thing was an absolute blast to drive. If baby #1 wasn't on the way I would most likely have bought it.

I think it's awesome Dodge hellcats everything lol and even offers sporty/performance versions of their cars. For the most part just sharing parts already available so why not. GM has one of the best parts bins in the world. They could totally make a hot hatch, or raptor fighter if they wanted

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

and suprisingly more people choose that car over the car with "world class" performance that equates to .1 in the 1/4 mile and a fraction of a second on a road course. maybe Mr. Wyndham will come in and explain why that is.

....and why its been that way for but a handful of years since 1965.

Because this:

Originally Posted by MazzaBL

Congrats, all that proves is that ford is selling more base model mustangs to 16 year old girls just getting their license. You don’t really think the primary demographic of mustang sales are enthusiasts buying fully optioned GT’s do you? Fact is GM is just building better performance cars these days and they also care more about the smaller demographic of enthusiasts who buy these cars. GM offers a performance vehicle for just about every price point of consumers, and when you compare GM vehicles to their equal trim competition, you get way more value for your money with GM. The mustang is a great car, my past 3 cars were mustangs, but ford just doesn’t care about being competitive as they know the mustang will sell regardless, and the small demographic of enthusiasts will buy the car regardless of performing sub par to the competition due to brand loyalty as well as the history it has of being the original iconic pony car. And let’s not get started on the ridiculous mark ups dealers charge for ford halo cars.

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

no, Mazza dribbled some nonsense about lower trim levels and brand loyalty and then had a fantasy about 16yo girls and Mustangs.

Brand loyal 16yo girls who just got their licenses....

You're getting the timeline confused, see above.

[ST1LE]

Every time it is proven the Mustang GT is outperformed by the Camaro SS in every way, the Mustang guys change the subject to sales.

Classic!

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

AND, I can tell you for a fact that win Ford announced the Ecoboost Mustang, that particular option made up MOST of their sales that first year.

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

At least for the 2015MY, the take rate for the 5.0 was almost 40%. EB sold far more than the V6 which likely explains why the dropped the 6cyl.

Official S550 Production Figures
Keep in mind, this is for US cars only

2015
Total Produced (USA): 110,648
Total Manuals (All Engines): 21,797
Total Automatics (All Engines): 88,851

Total 5.0's: 43,862

Total Ecoboost: 39,264

For a fact