[djctoto]

While investigating the addition of a robust catch can to my car I examined closely how the current set up had been implemented by Patriot Motorsports USA and still remains on the car.

What I found was a diverter valve with a nipple in place of the factory part which of course feeds from the crankcase directly into the Supercharger.

There is a hose from this nipple that feeds around the engine and connects to a simple two port catch can. This can has no baffles, no built in PVC valve and no check valve. I opened it up, and blew air through both ports to check it out.

I found the same exact part on Amazon
It's $35 and has nothing more than some steel wool type material to filter oil vapors.

My understanding of the factory system is:

The factory air/oil separator box operates by having fresh air supplied as an input from intake tube post air filter which then feeds the two lines going to the valve covers. Under vacuum the PCV valve at valley plate pulls vacuum on crankcase while fresh air is entering the valve covers, a closed system.

Under boost pressure builds up in engine which can bleed off through the valve cover vents lines and goes back to the box. Any oil vapor will drain to the oil pan. This setup is sufficient until you get to higher horsepower/boost levels in which the hose diameters need to be increased to keep up with the demand.

With the factory PCV the supercharger pulls vacuum on the engine via a direct connection between valley plate and the supercharger and receives all the oil vapors created in this instance to be burnt off in combustion.

The installed PCV now closes off this vacuum port to the supercharger and provides a direct line from the valley plate feeding into the catch can that is vented to atmosphere with no vacuum being applied to it.

Therefore as installed my engine can only vent pressure instead of it having vacuum applied to keep it from building pressure.

I believe this has been done incorrectly and needs to be corrected.

Can anyone other than Patriot Motorsports USA comment on:

Is my understanding of all this correct?
What kind of problems this current set up may cause?
how to fix it?

I have pictures showing all of this but I'm having difficulty attaching them.
I'll work on getting pictures posted up but in the meantime the description is 100% accurate and should suffice.

Thanks in advance.

[radz28]

Might Mouse (MM) instructions seem to mimic what you found.

Frankly - I'd just go that route. They have two versions, and they are known to work - period. Motion Raceworks seems to work well, too, but that's more generic.

I'd pull whatever is on, off, and slap the MM on there. I know it sucks to pay again, however, it's better safe than sorry. As many little details I keep seeing as stated wrongly, there is nearly no confidence left for input from some people. AND - don't just take my word: there are other MM threads and comments out there - all positive pretty much.

JMHO.

[nighttowl]

Mine vents to atmosphere. It was setup and tuned that way.
I dont like the smell, but changing it could cause other problems. If youre running a lot of boost it could push out the dipstick or blow off hose connections.
I'd leave it unless you want to take it to a different shop.

[RobZL1]

If I'm understanding the description correctly, your other issue is that the engine is pulling in unmetered air (and apparently unfiltered, too) through that catch can when the engine is under vacuum.

One key distinction from this and the MM cans is that the MM cans have a vacuum line attached.

Yes, you can just vent to atmosphere. Some people do that. I don't think it's ideal in the year 2026 (or the year 1996 for that matter), but it can be done and tooned around.

[Patriot Motorsports USA]

Originally Posted by djctoto

While investigating the addition of a robust catch can to my car I examined closely how the current set up had been implemented by Patriot Motorsports USA and still remains on the car.

What I found was a diverter valve with a nipple in place of the factory part which of course feeds from the crankcase directly into the Supercharger.

There is a hose from this nipple that feeds around the engine and connects to a simple two port catch can. This can has no baffles, no built in PVC valve and no check valve. I opened it up, and blew air through both ports to check it out.

I found the same exact part on Amazon
It's $35 and has nothing more than some steel wool type material to filter oil vapors.


Can anyone other than Patriot Motorsports USA comment on:


Thanks in advance.

Once Again... the hate spews without the benefit of knowledge.

I did NOT install any PCV system on your car. Your car has the plug Blocking-off the Supercharger, so nothing is going into the bricks from there. This is a positive thing.

Again, if you had contacted the original owner, Caleb before buying your car, you would know he bought the Elite Engineering Catch Can kit and had it installed inline to your vacuum pump with a defective check valve which caused the brake pedal to be hard as a rock. The reason I do not like this style is for the same reason I removed it... if the cracking valve fails, you get a hard pedal which will cause you to stab the pedal with great force, with the possibility of putting your car into ICE MODE and a loss of all braking power.

"Ice mode" is a track brake failure where the ABS mistakenly detects low grip (like ice) during high-G braking, causing a rock-hard pedal and near-zero braking power. It happens when rapidly applying maximum brake pressure, causing the ABS to reduce pressure severely. To fix it, you must release the brake pressure, then reapply smoothly.

Key Aspects of Ice Mode on Track

• Symptoms: The brake pedal feels extremely hard or "rock solid," yet the car does not slow down, often causing severe understeer.
  
• Cause: The ABS module misinterprets a quick, high-pressure, initial brake stab as a low-traction situation, activating "ice mode" to prevent tire lockup.
  
• Occurrences: Typically happens during the initial, hard application of the brake pedal (e.g., at the start of a braking zone).
  
• Common Scenarios: Cars with highly aggressive pads, slick tires, or on bumpy track surfaces (which can confuse ABS sensors) are more prone to this.

The Elite Engineering catch can was also mounted on the strut bar where the drain was located just over the exhaust system... great placement and will not pass tech inspection at most of the tracks around here. I removed it and its still here sitting on the shelf, which I would be happy to send you should you want something different than what has worked for the past two years on my car without putting a drop of oil onto my SC Bricks.

I am sure Ted Jannetty's guys will be happy to take your money, install this Elite system or sell you something different... but thanks again for the Stab in the back when we did everything for you for free labor.

Here are some photos to remind you of what has worked just fine, until I developed a better way... and subsequently just placed another order today to do the Improved Racing CCR Closed system on my car so it reflects what I have designed for others.


This is how my system is run, connecting the Driver's Side Valve Cover to the single catch can since that is the side the fills up with oil due to High-G cornering. Everything else is connected to the OEM Catch Can so it can drain back to the engine. The last photo is how we do it now, or you can view my thread on this topic.

[RobZL1]

Nothing wrong with the two setups pictured! While we disagree on the topic of the dyno and open loop tuning, I fully agree with either the old or the new catch can setup pictured above.

[Patriot Motorsports USA]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

Nothing wrong with the two setups pictured! While we disagree on the topic of the dyno and open loop tuning, I fully agree with either the old or the new catch can setup pictured above.

Agreed... that is why I ported the driver's side known to push oil out the VC and used the Evil Energy catch can which until I went down the path I have with the Improved Racing CCRs, has been just fine... I just hate having to monitor it for oil quantity. As you can see one side on Dan's car was indeed vented and the other was not. The car was tuned with the bleed from the 3/8 and the check valve under the SC connected which does not allow airflow in, so it vents to atmosphere but not in suction if it could.

[clj94104]

If you want something nicer, go buy some DSX valve covers (they’re baffled) and install the Motion Raceworks or Improved Racing CCR catch cans. Dave already did the hard part by installing the PCV plug below the blower.

Other than that, the setup he installed should be fine.

[Patriot Motorsports USA]

Originally Posted by clj94104

If you want something nicer, go buy some DSX valve covers (they’re baffled) and install the Motion Raceworks or Improved Racing CCR catch cans. Dave already did the hard part by installing the PCV plug below the blower.

Other than that, the setup he installed should be fine.

Interesting as I was told by Katech the OEM valve covers have the best baffling to keep the oil out of the catch cans. I must say, they still fill up when running as hard as we do in Clockwise carousel turns flat out!! Also note, I did NOT install the PCV port in Dan's car, it was done by the previous owner. I just simply used that hose to hook to the catch can and remove the one that didn't work.

If you look at the drawings for the Motion Raceworks Valve Covers, they are made like all the other billet competitors, the only baffle is a laser cut half sheet where the OEM is a complete sheet across the VC. If you look at the Katech covers, the only baffling in the cover is part of the actual exit to the catch can which is virtually worthless on the Driver's side unless the head has been ported to allow drainback flow to be increased.

[clj94104]

Here is the back of a DSX valve cover. I’m very pleased with its performance so far.

[Joshinator99]

The THPSI valve covers have the best PCV baffling followed second by OEM. I researched this well before buying the THPSI ones.

[clj94104]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

The THPSI valve covers have the best PCV baffling followed second by OEM. I researched this well before buying the THPSI ones.

I like the THPSI valve covers too.

The DSX baffling has performed very well for me. There wasn’t a lot of info on DSX’s baffling when I went to purchase, but I trusted Dave wouldn’t half ass it and I was right. I currently have the PCV blocked off under the supercharger and one 10AN line from each valve cover going into my Motion Raceworks VTA can.

[CamOnlyJabroni]

I run OEM valve covers on both cars and also pull intake vacuum to help evacuate crank case pressure. C7 gets just a tiny bit in the intake tube. Other than that, there isn't oil anywhere in either car. I run my 900whp Ram the same way. Metco on one valve cover and MM catch can that vents under boost on the other. Line still routed to the air intake to pull crankcase pressure as well under boost. Works perfect. Since the C7 is 20+psi and ~1,100whp there is a line straight from each valve cover to the intake tube.

[djctoto]

Originally Posted by Patriot Motorsports USA

Once Again... the hate spews without the benefit of knowledge.
I did NOT install any PCV system on your car. Your car has the plug Blocking-off the Supercharger, so nothing is going into the bricks from there. This is a positive thing.
Again, if you had contacted the original owner, Caleb before buying your car, you would know he bought and had it installed inline to your vacuum pump with a defective check valve which caused the brake pedal to be hard as a rock. The reason I do not like this style is for the same reason I removed it... if the cracking valve fails, you get a hard pedal which will cause you to stab the pedal with great force, with the possibility of putting your car into ICE MODE and a loss of all braking power.
The Elite Engineering catch can was also mounted on the strut bar where the drain was located just over the exhaust system... great placement and will not pass tech inspection at most of the tracks around here. I removed it and its still here sitting on the shelf, which I would be happy to send you should you want something different than what has worked for the past two years on my car without putting a drop of oil onto my SC Bricks.
I am sure Ted Jannetty's guys will be happy to take your money, install this Elite system or sell you something different... but thanks again for the Stab in the back when we did everything for you for free labor.

I was never informed there was a EE can previously installed on my car and removed by PMS so why in world would I think to ask the previous owner about it.

The free labor cost me 4 months of the car sitting in your shop while you used it as a development mule and promotional car. You went into the arrangement eyes wide open and I sent over $15k to PMS with the most expensive part being the ARH headers which took you 10 months to send me.

There is no stabbing in the back going on here if anything the reverse was true time and time again but this can be argued ad-nauseam so why do you keep bringing it up?

The last point I'd like to make is on my car the catch can / PCV system which you claim to have worked for years is completely different in design and function to your new Improved Racing set up.

The consensus on this forum is that there are two known good solutions the Mighty Mouse and the Elite Engineering both used without issues on the track and accomplish the same two goals with the use of a diverter valve replacing the stock PCV.
1. Reducing dirty side contamination of the SC from the stock PCV valve
2. Increase the capacity for positive crankcase pressure relief.

No doubt your newest system accomplishes #2
But I see that installed in the white car it retains the stock PCV valve.

The Catch Can question and various approaches have been debated by those a lot smarter than us so I won't make any judgement but your newest approach raises some questions.

> With the dramatically increase in fresh air flow through the much larger hoses and Improved Racing CC doesn't this also increase the amount of dirty vapor that can be drawn into the Supercharger through the stock PCV defeating one of the main objectives in installing a CC to begin with.

>Numerous times PMS has claimed that every product it sells has been rigorously track tested. Yet is appears the new Improved Racing CCS your selling on your site was installed for the first time on the white car.

If I'm wrong can you direct me to one of your famous videos showing the reduction in accumulated dirty oil in the Supercharger after 500, 1000 or 1500 miles compared to any other system??

Like Graragekingcanada has done here:

Or did you send your customer on their way with a critical system that's hasn't been track tested.