[ULTRAZLS1]

Switched to a ported msd intake and a rotofab dry filter. My previous best was 11.16@120.5 with a pray ported stocker and oiled filter in 900 DA.

Considering my 60 ft tonight was 1.64 compared to 1.62 and DA was + 1500 compared to +900 I may have picked up a possible tenth and a mph with a ported msd. But I also switched to the dry filter which is slightly better. Gains are close to none over PRAY's ported stocker.

All in all I can not recommend an msd intake over prays ported stocker. Without porting and raised shifts the msd would be slower than his ported stock unit.
Given I ran his intake with an oiled filter which has shown to be down about 5-10 hp to the dry I just don't see the msd being worth it. Youre going to spend about 1500 bucks with a ported msd and maybe pick up a half tenth to a full tenth. The only benefit I see to a ported msd over prays ported stock unit is with a higher revving 7000 rpm cam.

Here's the slip. Im done for now until the fall when I should have a good shot at tens

[laynlo15]

There ya go, wasted money. Sorry to hear that.

[Snowblind]

Sweeet. Your back half mph has picked up some too.

[PRAY]

Thanks for posting up Ultra. I wish we would have been able to get you fully dialed in with my stuff before the swap. I uderstand your trepidation with testing both at the track last night with the issue with the MSD. I appreciate your exploration. When you have a goal you have to try everything.

Looking back over our conversations and the time slips you have sent me I see that in same to worse DA you trapped as high as 98.8 and 121.1 on a pretty consistent basis. That was with my ported IM/TB and RF oiled filter. There were some tuning things we still needed to work on the better DA day so the MPH wasn't up even though the ET was down.

Two things to consider for comparison. When I tested the RF oiled filter I saw about the same results that Ted saw. But when back to backing the RF with a dry filter a couple of different times we saw gains of 12-14rw on my car. Another thing is that this was just a ported IM to ported IM swap. My ported TB stayed consistant. I have seen gains of up to 6rw with my ported TB. So take that away and put the oiled filter back on and I would be curious to see what would have happened. I only bring up the ported TB since it will be anothwr cost incured to get the most out of the ported MSD or ported stocker. I won't mention the different tuning or shift points for the MSD. I will chalk that up to dialing in the combo like you should.

Keep at it bro. You are flying for 1,500 DA and bolt ons.

[PRAY]

Originally Posted by Snowblind

Sweeet. Your back half mph has picked up some too.

It is tricky to get the ported stock IM to back half. Fuel and spark have to be dead on along with shift rpm. Leaning out the fuel and adddinf timing past peak hp are your friend. You have to consider shift recovery rpm and powerband. Gears 1-3 are great for tq but the 3/4 and 4/5 shift recovery rpm favor hp and rpm. You use all of first gear and that is the single determiner of 60ft. With a 1.60'ish 60ft you are only at 5,300 or so in first on the stock converter. So it is all tq. If all shift are made at 6,500 the recovery rpm is as follows. 1/2=4,500, 2/3=4,500, 3/4=5,100, 4/5=5,000.

[laynlo15]

1k for an intake that doesn't really make you go faster is pretty much worthless. I'll take Brett's anyday.

[1slowssm6]

Did you retune for the ported msd? I'm still not taking this as a nail
In the coffin for the msd,the current Bolton record holder runs a ported msd with stock manifolds,stock stall,but some here base their opinions based off of 1 run in varying conditions.

[PRAY]

Originally Posted by 1slowssm6

Did you retune for the ported msd? I'm still not taking this as a nail
In the coffin for the msd,the current Bolton record holder runs a ported msd with stock manifolds,stock stall,but some here base their opinions based off of 1 run in varying conditions.

There was a re-tune done for the MSD with adjusted shift points. I believe the same company provided base tunes for this car and the current bolt on record holder. Not to mention that the ported stocker never really got dialed in. The stock ported IM really needs some detailed work past peak hp to get the top end charge correct. But that is a moot point.

This is the closest we have to back to back testing on the same car at the track. But this is hardly one test of one car. I have run at the track with MSD cars on a couple occasions along with highway runs. Same result each time. The record 10.86 was run in -200 to -500 DA. I ran 10.99 in +1,700-2,000 DA in a heavier car on a 28" tire. There are plenty of cars running MSD's and ported MSD's and are not close to the record holder or my times or Ultras times. All the guys that I know that race with ported stock IM's are pretty darn close on ET and MPH. I would say using the record holder as the litmus test of what the MSD is going to run on your regular combo is not the best idea. So far it is the anomaly, not the rule.

Again, you have to look at the combo of the current record holder and compare the facts. The stock stall isn't bad at all. Especially with a 26" tire. Just look at the 60fts. People are underestimating the gains from a 26" tire. You are basically going from a 2.77 rear gear to a 2.98 rear gear which has multiple advantages. Going to a 4C in my car did drop .14 in the 60ft but cost me 3-4mph up top. The stock manifolds with no cats have proven to be within 6-12rw of catted headers. I ran 11.07@123+ with the stock manifolds and all the cats. In +400 to +700 DA higher weather I trapped within 1mph of the record holder on the stock converter.

I fully believe that a properly ported MSD should and will hold about 1mph on the ported stocker on the top end. The MSD has proven to be down a mph or two in the 1/8 to the ported stocker with taller tires. But when it comes down to ET, especially on the stock converter, the ported MSD has not proven to be any quicker in equal weather. Now match a ported MSD with a 4C and I think you are going to see some stuff. The top end pull should make up for the lost mph and the higher stall should make up for the tq loss. Add in a 26" tall tire with a 1SS and I whole heartedly believe you will see 10.50's go down in the fall/winter.

In the end, it isn't the manifold, it is the combo and the tuning. Like stated above and in several other posts, follow the fastest guys on the boards and copy their combo's if you want to be in the mix. I don't think there is much more reinventing of the wheel any more for bolt on combos. Was this the nail in the coffin for the MSD, no, but was it a valid example of what your money gets you, yes.

[DFW1LE]

Does a ported MSD fair any better on M6 cars vs A8 compared to a ported stock manifold? How about if the car has a cam/heads package, any guesses?

[PRAY]

Originally Posted by DFW1LE

Does a ported MSD fair any better on M6 cars vs A8 compared to a ported stock manifold? How about if the car has a cam/heads package, any guesses?

Without guessing and going off posted and reported results the ported stocker seems to be better for the M6 as well. Less gear selection and wider splits for the M6. TQ usually wins that equation. From what I have seen in the M6 1/4 times the MPH doesn't seem to be way up for the MSD cars.

H/C I feel you would be silly to not go with the ported MSD. I will even go out on a limb and say with the stock cam and ported heads the ported MSD would be faster. They dyno showed much about 40rw more available at 6,300 with the ported MSD with my ported heads. From my testing a cam only car is a toss up so far between the ported MSD and ported Stocker. I will do some more testing on that at some point.

[ULTRAZLS1]

After going over the logs the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts were still low at 62-6300. The 3-4 and 4-5 were up where I wanted them around 6700.

Going to raise them even further. Not sure ill go back to the track till the fall though.

We are thinking the car should pick up a little bit more once the shifts are all proper. Then again I never had them all the way proper with prays ported stocker either. This damn car doesn't want to accept the shift speeds its given...

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by laynlo15

1k for an intake that doesn't really make you go faster is pretty much worthless. I'll take Brett's anyday.

Wait, the MSD is eye candy in an ugly purposeful sort of way. So not worthless!

It looks even better with Tim's E85 fuel line.

[bhillakaiceberg]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

After going over the logs the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts were still low at 62-6300. The 3-4 and 4-5 were up where I wanted them around 6700.

Going to raise them even further. Not sure ill go back to the track till the fall though.

We are thinking the car should pick up a little bit more once the shifts are all proper. Then again I never had them all the way proper with prays ported stocker either. This damn car doesn't want to accept the shift speeds its given...

Yea...I have had trouble messing with shift speeds as well. IDK what it is.. LOL. On my 5th Gen, I tweak PATTERN B WOT table and then copy to all other Patterns just to be consistent. On the 6th Gen, if I tweak Pattern B WOT table, which it is def in during WOT movement, the speeds never line up. I get all types of issues sometimes... hahaha. Ill figure it out eventually.

[PRAY]

Shift speed is the initiator as far as I can tell and needs some lead time. Shift RPM seems to be the finisher. From what I have found if these two aren't extremely close then it leads to shift errors. I also line out all of the rpm and mph tables the same for every change I do. The I drive it down to the end of the track and do a couple one to two gear hits to settle the tune. There is obviously Adaptive Learning in this trans but I haven't been able to dump it with EFI Live. HPT may have a way. Even after all of that it usually takes a couple full passes to get the shift points to settle before I can make any adjustments. I still can't figure out why I am getting up to 50% blade closure for up to .6 seconds on the 3/4 and 4/5 shift with all the TM turned off. These cars are a trip.

You will get it dialed in Ultra. You have a great group of guys behind you.