[ProjectZL1]

Well this was a very interesting test and we found some interesting things out.

Things to note:
1.All test done on my 2017 Camaro zl1 m6.

2.Tested Soler Performance ported TB, current version and new higher flow halfshaft version.

3.Cool down time was allowed between runs to keep from heart soak.

4.Ambient temps were in the mid 60's the entire morning.

5.IAT was 68 degrees when we started and 4 hours and about 14 pulls later the last pull was about 79 degrees.

6.Data logged runs using HPtuners logging software, Dyno owner did logging.

7.I performed the "learning procedure" between TB test. "Idle for 30 seconds, turn car off for 1 min. Repeat. Then drive car for 3 min over 40 mph allowing car to softly accel and decel. Then let idle 30 sec".

8.Soler does extensive flow testing on their TB's

9.All runs were between 579 hp and 588hp peak, ALL OF THEM. And the Soler TB's picked up more flow according to the MAF than the stock unit, so they flow more air.

10.All runs i had my Rotofab dry filter CAI installed.



We made two pulls with the factory TB, allowed cool down. Then switched to the Soler current version, did relearn and made two pulls. We found that the numbers were quite similar. Surprised i made a third pull to confirm and it was about the same. So we allowed cool down and went to the Soler New high flow halfshaft version, did the relearn and made two pulls. It appeared we gained almost 10 hp in the low to mid RPM range. 2500 - 4000. But while just driving on the rollers in 3rd gear testing drivability we got a check engine light with the halfshaft version. Note we did not receive this at WOT during pulls just at part throttle around 2500/3000 - 4000/4500 rpm. There is too much of and increase in flow at part throttle at those RPM's for the computer to adjust for.
So we went back to the current version of Soler to confirm. Allowed cool down, performed relearn, made two pulls. The runs almost matched the halfshaft version. Intrigued we put the stock unit back on, allowed cool down, performed relearn and made a pull. It was very close to the two Soler unit pulls. So we went to the data logs. We made several more runs on each TB, allowing cool down and looking at the logs. Some pulls i even doubled up the learn procedure and it actually brought the dyno runs closer together.

We saw:
Stock TB - We saw max flow 80 lbs a min on MAF
Soler current version - Max flow of 85 lbs a min
Soler high flow halfshaft - Max flow of 86 lbs a min - This one has more of a difference at part throttle.

Well with more flow we should have more power, but we did not.
What we saw was the stock tune was closing the throttle blade for some reason. We don't know what in the tune is doing this. Maybe its looking for a particular torque value or MAF value at certain RPM's I do not know why, but that is what it is doing. It starts at 100%, closes it back starting around 2500/3000 RPM then in the last 800 to 1000 RPM it opens it back to 100% like its rushing to redline.


So we looked at 4400 rpm where the MAF lbs a min were the same between stock and Soler current version.

At 4400 RPM Stock at 55.54 lbs a min the ECM had throttle blade closed to 72.5%
At 4400 RPM Soler at 55.54 lbs a min the ECM had throttle blade closed to 65.1%

So it had to close the blade 7.4% more at that RPM to get the same amount of flow through the MAF, confirming the Soler TB flows more air.

So this tells me it would not matter what TB you buy a slap on the car you wouldn't gain any HP out of it because the ECU is seeing the increase in flow and saying F YOU! and closing the throttle blade to wrangle it back in. I assume if you do not perform the learning procedure and just slap it on a do a run you may see gains at first but after it learns the new TB it will dumb the power back down to close to stok levels. Important to note that Soler never claimed that you gained power with their TB.

In closing to see any real gains out of TB/intake mods on this car you would need to get a tune to get rid of the ECM closing the throttle blade. In my opinion the ported TB is still worth it. The Soler unit gets rid of the dead spot right off idle and much improves part throttle drivability. The throttle feels much soother and linear because of the way they do their porting. We were able to prove the Soler TB does increase flow over the stock unit even at WOT.

This was a Test on my car and actually surprised me, I felt the Soler unit would gain me at least 20 to 30 hp based off of the flow test Soler has done. But I found out that even though the Soler TB flows more air the Stock ECM limits the power. This is what I observed my car doing on the dyno. I spend half a day, and 4 Hours on the dyno and performed about 8 to 10 TB changes.

I tried to run the New high flow half shaft version on the 37 mile ride to the house. I did perform the learn procedure on the dyno before I left. I got a check engine light and went to reduced power mode every time I held a gear and hung around 3k RPM at part throttle. That's roughly about the area the new halfshat version flows the most air over stock TB in flow bench testing. I drove it all the way home most of the way over 60 mph and after all that learn time I still got the code when I did part throttle acceleration and got to 3k RPM. So Soler has said they will offer this new halfshft version as an option if you are tuned and do not want to spend the money on a 103 or 95 lt5 TB.

Its alot of info and a lot to read but it was an interesting day to say the least, I was able to learn a lot.

[ICTsccaCamaro]

Damn, thank you for your time and research!

[ProjectZL1]

Originally Posted by ICTsccaCamaro

Damn, thank you for your time and research!

It was originally going to be a 1 hr dyno session but once we got weird results we started testing and trying to figure out what was happening. turned into a 4 hr session. lol . The Dyno owner does atot of tuning just not on these cars, so he was just as interested in it as I was.

[ZL1 1LE]

That's G_d's work right there. Thank you!

[radz28]

It's a shame that the PCM limits potential but it makes sense for GM. It keeps from breaking parts they didn't engineer to make more than X-power.

[ProjectZL1]

Originally Posted by radz28

It's a shame that the PCM limits potential but it makes sense for GM. It keeps from breaking parts they didn't engineer to make more than X-power.

From what we could see, Eric (Owner of HUX racing) and I believe Chevy down tuned these cars. We only saw a max of 8 degrees of timing and as little as 6.5 degrees on 2 runs where we got a small amount of knock and it pulled some timing. I remember my mustang was like 30 degrees. plus with the throttle blade closing you loose a lot from 2500/3000 to around 4500/5000. May be why we see such good improvement with a tune. Especially with supporting mods.. Intake, TB, Headers.. etc. I do not think it as much them keeping you from breaking those parts as it is they wanted a bigger difference between the LT5 in the ZL1 and Z06 and the LT5 in the ZR1. There are A LOT of people that strap on AUX fueling and a bigger Supercharger and run 700 to 900 hp to the wheels, and are fine.

[Junkyardspecial]

This is awesome work. I'm even more happy now that I grabbed a Soler TB.

[ProjectZL1]

Originally Posted by Junkyardspecial

This is awesome work. I'm even more happy now that I grabbed a Soler TB.

Heck yeah man, a lot of engineering went into the TB port design they use. The guys are engineers! I talked to Mike about the design and how they came up with the port nozzle slots they cut into the Body and blade to smooth and speed up the flow of air. Not just your average ported and polished unit.

I was disappointed that I did not gain power at first. But after going though it all i am pretty happy i was able to see a good air flow increase over stock, its just that the car is limiting it by closing the throttle. The feel of the throttle with soler's unit installed is much better and the dead spot off idle is gone, those are worth the money to me.

[hawk02]

Nice to finally see some concrete ported TB data. It confirms what I've suspected all along. And that is the ECM on the stock tune expects a specific range of airflow and if that range is exceeded, the ECM will close the throttle blade to bring airflow back into range. You're going to have to tune if you want the maximum benefit from a PTB.

Thanks for the detailed writeup. I hope the dyno owner gave you a little price break for the 4 hrs of dyno time.

[SJFGTO]

Great write up. Thank you for really helpful and necessary information. Your results, in a nut shell, are consistent with mine going back to porting the stock TB on LS2’s. The increase in HP at any point along the curve was negligible, the most I ever saw was 7 I believe. The tangible benefit is a sharper throttle response at part and mid throttle. That was my experience with a ported TB on my 2005 GTO and again when I added the TM TB to my ZE.

[JoyRider7]

Thanks for the great info! I was seriously looking at the Soler for mine but now I'm thinking maybe I should just wait until I decide to start tuning and just go bigger at that point.

[ProjectZL1]

Originally Posted by hawk02

Nice to finally see some concrete ported TB data. It confirms what I've suspected all along. And that is the ECM on the stock tune expects a specific range of airflow and if that range is exceeded, the ECM will close the throttle blade to bring airflow back into range. You're going to have to tune if you want the maximum benefit from a PTB.
TRUE, But it was still worth it for me. The improvement in throttle feel and getting rid of that dead spot was awesome.

Thanks for the detailed writeup. I hope the dyno owner gave you a little price break for the 4 hrs of dyno time.

He did a little, but i understand he has a business to run also.

Originally Posted by SJFGTO

Great write up. Thank you for really helpful and necessary information. Your results, in a nut shell, are consistent with mine going back to porting the stock TB on LS2’s. The increase in HP at any point along the curve was negligible, the most I ever saw was 7 I believe. The tangible benefit is a sharper throttle response at part and mid throttle. That was my experience with a ported TB on my 2005 GTO and again when I added the TM TB to my ZE.

Yes, i fell like a tune with a ported TB will net more power than a tune with a stock TB because of the air flow in crease we saw over stock with the Soler unit.

Originally Posted by JoyRider7

Thanks for the great info! I was seriously looking at the Soler for mine but now I'm thinking maybe I should just wait until I decide to start tuning and just go bigger at that point.

Soler is still a great option if you are looking for better throttle feel and getting rid of that dead spot just off idle if you are a manual.

[Firecaptain]

As an M6 owner I'm glad to hear this ......will definitely put in on my mod list.

Originally Posted by ProjectZL1

In my opinion the ported TB is still worth it. The Soler unit gets rid of the dead spot right off idle and much improves part throttle drivability. The throttle feels much soother and linear because of the way they do their porting.

[PROMETHEUS]

I installed the Soler TB on mine about 4 months ago. What an improvement in eliminating that bog off idle. No real difference in much of anything else. But I still have the stock tune on mine.