Quote:
Originally Posted by JaxChris
-Crappy A/C (vs over 12" of vertical fogging in the middle of the windshield)
-Rattling / Ticking engine (vs NPP & AFM valve rattle)
-Random CELs (vs exploding LT1's)
-Grinding manual tranny (vs 8L90e has been a headache for many of us)
-Hood flutter (vs 6th gen Camaro has it, do 80mph on a bridge)
-Misaligned body panels (vs most lifts crush our sideskirts)
-Rust spots after a few years (vs you didn't own a thin paint 5th gen?)
-Hood corrosion (vs GM still has a problem with rail dust settling on cars)
-Oil leaks (vs wrong fluids put in at the factory)
-Driveline vibration (vs rear differential shudder)
-Malfunctioning power seats (vs Service Rear Vision System)
-Loose master cylinder hose leaking brake fluid (vs insane amounts of corrosive brake dust)
-Excessive oil consumption (vs change your own oil and see you're also missing a quart after 5k miles)
-Leaking valve cover gasket (vs loose piston rings seizing)
It takes a special person to keep their eyes shut so hard for so long and never attempt to experience all sides for themselves. I will give you that the 6th gen paint job is more uniform, but for the rest there is a tit for tat between complaints of the S550 & Alpha competitors.
If GM sorted out their engine and transmission issues and took the platform approach that Ford did with the S550, it would be the best combination to bring back those buyers that remember what a Camaro is supposed to be. A Camaro was never supposed to have a median price above the median income of its' core buyer and certainly not go all the way above the national median salary.
And you can have your pinned together car, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have the ability to make it your own. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. Why do you assume that you can't have both in this scenario? You think an easier to alter platform is more prone to quality issues? Tell that to Honda or VW or Subaru. They use a toolkit approach to every model and everything is interchangeable. And still they rank in the top bracket for quality (just not truth in emissions).
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-Crappy A/C (vs over 12" of vertical fogging in the middle of the windshield) -
Yeah but the A/C still works. Anyway not a big deal.
-Rattling / Ticking engine (vs NPP & AFM valve rattle) -
I'll take the NPP rattle anyday vs an unreliable engine.
-Random CELs (vs exploding LT1's) -
Exploding LT1s are rare by comparison
-Grinding manual tranny (vs 8L90e has been a headache for many of us) -
I'll give you that. GM screwed up on the A8.
-Hood flutter (vs 6th gen Camaro has it, do 80mph on a bridge) -
BS, I have taken it up to 120-130 - never happened. When last have you seen a thread here about hood flutter?
-Misaligned body panels (vs most lifts crush our sideskirts) -
Apples and oranges. One is poor quality control, another is negligence.
-Rust spots after a few years (vs you didn't own a thin paint 5th gen?) -
No I own a 6th gen.
-Hood corrosion (vs GM still has a problem with rail dust settling on cars) -
Stretching a bit, aren't we? Plus rail dust is easily removable
-Oil leaks (vs wrong fluids put in at the factory) -
Apples and oranges. One is poor build quality, another is negligence.
-Driveline vibration (vs rear differential shudder) -
Rear diff groan is an issue on some 6th gens, true - but it's pretty rare nowadays and easily fixable. Driveline vibration? Good luck. And Ford doesn't care.
-Malfunctioning power seats (vs Service Rear Vision System) -
Rare.
-Loose master cylinder hose leaking brake fluid (vs insane amounts of corrosive brake dust) -
Apples and oranges. Brake dust is a result of pad type, not system design.
-Excessive oil consumption (vs change your own oil and see you're also missing a quart after 5k miles) -
Rare.
-Leaking valve cover gasket (vs loose piston rings seizing) -
Rare
Knowing I was going to keep the car for more than 5 years, I looked long and hard at the Mustang vs Camaro issues, and they just didn't compare. Ford's glaring quality control problems stood out. No, the Camaro is not perfect, but they don't compare tit for tat, not by a longshot.
As for platform differences, what you get with the base Mustang doesn't compare well to what you get with the Camaro. The Camaro is aimed at those that want a more well rounded car AND the enthusiast that demond more from their cars than just average features and average handling for the money. Only in straightline performance does the Mustang compare favorably. So what is GM supposed to do? Give you these extra features at the same price? No, the Camaro cost more because you get more.
If you want a car to build and the S550 platform is more favorable, then get a Mustang, it's as simple as that. If I wanted the Mustang experience, I'd have bought one.
And Please, Honda and quality don't necessarily go hand in hand. Their higher performance cars that can compare somewhat to the Camaro SS are riddled with quality issues. You won't hear that from the mags, you'll see it in the forums. And believe me, I have.
Yes GM will have to do something regarding sales, and I see a complete redesign as the only answer. But I'd rather them start from the ground up with a new platform than to water down what the Camaro sits on. Keep the Camaro for the mid to higher end enthusiast market and give the general public a watered down platform with a sleek exterior, nicer interior, room for four, and a bubble canopy.