Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson
Fixed.
Been through this same thing over on M6G, where it still seems they could have saved just one of the sedan lines to be axed and kept at least a minimal presence in the sedan/coupe market. Minimal still amounting to something like half a million or so sales/year between the top two.
Most of us also buy outside the muscle car/ponycar/sports car niche. Why on earth should we be required to embrace such a different set of criteria for our less overtly performance-oriented purchases? Do you really want to leave your "fun to drive" in the hall closet every time you have to drive your not-the-Camaro?
Norm
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implied, but agree with your edit.
We will only have to embrace something outside of EVs and autonomous when our market share for ICEs is to small to support with a business case for an OEM. Or we will simply have to pay more for it.
We may not like the future much but one thing for sure is we can't stop it from coming.
Can anyone on this site imagine SHARING their Camaro? Or simply having a Camaro delivered when you want to drive a Camaro and sending it back when you are done? I would suggest very few. Part of the Camaro (or statement car) is owning it, personalizing it. How many threads on this site are simply the excitement of a new owner adding their first modification?
Can you imagine summoning a Camaro on your phone, having it show up on time and you get in and their is no steering wheel. You simply get to ride in a sweet Camaro following every single speed and traffic law.
And way down the road can you imagine someone bringing up the statistics that almost all traffic deaths are now the result of having a non-autonomous vehicle and that they should be removed from the road?
This is where the market (and GM) are heading.
Could they be wrong? Very possibly.
But no one should be thinking the Government bailed out GM and FCA (ooooops foreign owned now, what about that money and shutting down production of Dart and 200 and more to come) to have it be exactly they way it was in 2008/9. That wouldn't be possible.
Oh and as for that future? How many cars on the road will have been built in China 10 years from now? No one bats an eyelash about every Samsung and Apple phone coming from over seas. Your Television? Your laptop?
I tried to give a crap about this for years and was simply laughed at. Middle class Americans are the ones that are impacted the most by the loss of those manufacturing jobs and that is at least a part of how President Trump was elected.
There is way more going on here than simply closing two factories (the other two are simply outdated transmission plants).
This is on the surface an American company playing the long game.
If you look at what GM's biggest problem was in the 80/09 timeframe, it was simply it couldn't afford the legacy costs of pensions and retirements. They were paying a pension and healthcare for 5 people for everyone that was working. Imagine running your own company where you have to pay for 5 people that add nothing to your bottom line. Want to know why GMs products got continually cheaper and cheaper through the 80s and 90s? It's because every car and truck program started with a several thousand dollar bill for contribution to legacy costs.
Now GM is taking proactive steps and everyone wants to hammer them.
Look I feel bad about this. I've had many friends that are still there that have had to go through the agonizing process of taking the package or staying. Not one of my friends that took the package was yelling yippeeeee. It was more, wow, my career just ended. Today is my last day. What am I going to do next?
Now the rest of the salary employees wait until January (over the Holiday break) to see if they will get told in January that they are no longer "necessary". At least 5,000 more. Same number as the first round during the bankruptcy.
And I grew up with both of my parents working in GM assembly facilities in Michigan. I know how scary this is for people that have a great job at GM and now the fear of it being gone is devastating.
From a personal standpoint this is no less than horrific for thousands of people. But maybe I am sensitized to it as my wife was unceremoniously walked out in 2009. And yes it was devastating to her and our family......at the time. Took years to get over being a loyal, dedicated employee and POOF! Done, gone, thanks for 26 years but you aren't needed.
So for the people impacted this sucks.
From an American manufacturing standpoint this is simply GM looking toward the future and making sure that when and if a down turn comes or when and if we let 2 or 3 million Chinese made cars into the country (and we will) and making sure they still exist.
Oh and one more thing. If you guys think the "bailout" of GM was to save jobs, the Government required a plan from GM to eliminate 5,000 jobs to start and then a contractually obligated 5,000 more. It was in the agreement with the Government. So the bailout itself required GM to eliminate 10,000 jobs in order to get the assistance it needed.
And Norm sorry for using your reply to tee this one up.