Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinjlm
I’m looking at it as a product planner who would have to make a business case to get GM to invest the money to make it happen. That’s because for many years that was my job. So I’m well acquainted with the things that would stop the proposal in its tracks. Because I’ve had to work to get programs beyond those same barriers. I do know for a fact that Tadge and his team did look hard for an MT manufacturer and could not find one. My team gave the Corvette team detail on MT manufacturers that were supplying European supercar manufacturers. Let me just say that even if one of them could come up with a high enough torque capacity in the required configuration, GM’s price to acquire was in the high 4 digits range. Which would mean it would “price out” at roughly double that to the end consumer. You ready to pay $8-10k for an MT option? And in all actuality, at least one well known manufacturer said it wasn’t worth it for them to even study it.
There are a number of factors that go into the cost of a feature. A Challenger has engine options including 3.6L V6, 5.7L Hemi V8, 6.4L Hemi V8, and 6.2SC Hellcat. Which do you think is least expensive for Dodge to put in the car? Not the 3.6L. It’s actually quite expensive, especially compared to the 5.7L and the 6.4L. They are made in higher volume for a much longer time span at a plant in Mexico with little labor cost. Of course they make more money every time someone checks the box for a Hemi, but it doesn’t mean it costs them more. Similarly, for GM to just suddenly make a new 327 for a small percentage of a low volume car would cost a heck of a lot more than an LT1 that is used in moderate volume in Camaro, has years of usage in C7 and is very, very similar to the L87 that has hundreds of thousands made every year for trucks and SUVs. That’s a business case that I wouldn’t even put in pencil if I was still on the job. LT6 will be an expensive engine, but it will pay for itself.
This is a forum of enthusiasts and I get that. Most here are not industry insiders or MBA-equipped business managers, so I totally get the passion behind the “why not just do “x” point of view. Since I am at the intersection of being an enthusiast that wants many of the same things and a business manager with an engineering and manufacturing background that recognizes what it would take to get them I try to bring to this forum the other side of the coin. The understanding of why some of the great ideas might not actually ever see the light of day. I desperately wanted to see LT5 drop into Camaro and Escalade once C7 was done with it and I actually included it in our forecasts when I was forecasting powertrains for my current company. Then I got good intel from some of my contacts on the issues that were making that not happen. Doesn’t make me want it less, just helps me understand why it won’t be. So what I try to do here is bring some of the understanding of why some things happen and some things don’t.
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The business side of things rarely over rules the heart here.
To further your point on powertrains, going back to the Colorado/canyon/H3, the 5 cylinder engine was wildly more expensive than the V8 they eventually put in. Yet as I recall the V8 was a $1500 option.
A DOHC has so much more content and machining operations than a good old push rod engine. But we aren’t paying for that or lusting for that, it’s the HP torque and the other intangibles.
I do recall asking Tadge once why the TT V6 wasn’t considered for the Corvette. He said the FE gains were negligible and the cost was ridiculous.
As for the LT5 discussion, it’s the same as the Blackwing. And the same for the Omega architecture that GM wasted. Imagine a Camaro off of Omega rather than Alpha. Same weight but a bigger car with a back seat and trunk space. Killer thought.
But now it’s clear GM is making a hard right turn to EVs. Several rumored products with spy photos seem to have just evaporated. Vehicles due for even a mild refresh are getting nothing. The 2 row Acadia? 3 row Blazer? GMC Gamma SUV? Seemingly no longer happening. All the people and resources diverted.
Brightdrop? In 2 years GM quietLy blew past Rivian and has shipped vans to FedEx this week. Granted it’s a delivery van with not much interior work but done so quickly.
And at CES we get to see GMs pickup.