Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye
I still don't think he "won"...and that's only because nobody was supposed to "win" in anything other than a game of chicken on a corporate level...
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GM challenged other companies to a race. So far, the only headliner does not represent a company; therefore, Bob Lutz just singlehandedly beat the entire automotive industry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
Lutz issued the challenge to be on a personal level. Cooper beat Lutz.
How does he not win?
If you want to dig deeper it'd be a win-win because of the press it brought for the V... but Cooper DID beat Lutz.
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GM wins by issuing the challenge. A kid beat Lutz on the track, but GM still gets to be in the headlines. The kid wins against Lutz and gets a lot of respect from BMW, but Lutz wins for getting GM lots of attention. The kid beat the challenge, but he would still lose to a CTS-V in a race, as his lap time reflects. The CTS-V is a better car, so the CTS-V still wins against the M3. You can call this a win-win-win for Lutz, the kid, and the CTS-V.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye
He beat Lutz...but he did not win.
Winners are in first place, and regardless of whether Heinricy is a racer or not...he is in first, not this Cooper guy. 
For the record, Heinricy could have driven a Prius, and I'd still make this argument, so it doesn't have to do with brand loyalty... |
As I just noted, Lutz lost the challenge but won the game.
For all of you playing, you just lost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
"Professional Challenge participants, if any, shall compete against a GM professional driver or appointed designee."
Straight from the CTS-V Challenge Website. Ironic that a pro-driver facing off against Lutz would be viewed as unfair, but a pro-driver facing off against Cooper is just dandy.  |
This proves my point that the kid is disqualified because he is not a professional driver for BMW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye
If there were separate brackets with times that made the distinction...then I'd gladly retract my statement. But as I saw it, they were all up on the same board. They all beat Lutz (well, drivers 1-7 anyways) but only one of them won. |
The winner is always in first.
"What does it take to be number one?"—Nelly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
ok. Cooper Beat Lutz, winning the 'beat lutz in a CTS-V challenge', even though he didn't put up the best lap time at the event.
I feel as if this has gone on so long that my position is somehow being viewed as anti-CTS-V. I LOVE the CTS-V. I was blown away by how nice it was when I sat in the car, and the attention to detail didn't reflect a company that was having financial issues. Yes there are things i'd change (exterior styling) but for the money there is no better car.
That said, Cooper may not have had the fastest lap time, but he beat the challenger and therefore won the challenge. That's what this whole bmw hoopla is about.
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BMW is capitalizing on what could become quality marketing. Some kid beat a Victory Cadillac in a BMW M. That's pretty awesome for them. I have a lot of respect for BMW, so I'm okay with this happening. GM enthusiasts will point out that BMW did not win, but it is hard to argue that this kid did not have the better track time over Lutz. Before, I called this a win-win-win. This may be a win-win-win-win when you throw BMW into the equation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstairs
so.... he "almost won"?
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He's not a professional driver, so he's disqualified. Despite this, he put up a time faster than Bob Lutz. Interpret that how you will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
If your not going to make an effort to read the last 3 pages, I'm not going to make the effort of giving you the cliff notes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
Exactly.
CTS-V > M3
Cooper > Lutz
But people just get their panties in a bunch and argue for the sake of arguing.
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Seriously, unbunch your panties. The CTS-V is still the best in its class in terms of performance, and this kid is not going to cost Lutz his job or his reputation.