Quote:
Originally Posted by jamala00
I see people make this claim/argument so many times in EV threads. The problem with this argument is automobiles back then, roads, gas stations, etc... They ALL made everyone's lives better in every way over horses and trails. Toss out the fact of ICE drivers subsidizing driving an EV for now... (Because that will change) Today EV's do not make anyone's lives better.
Until EV's make peoples lives better and the masses can see why, they will not ever become mainstream without them simply being shoved down our throats. Things that are forced upon us that consumers don't see the benefit of, simply don't fair well in history.
|
Except for us, the dying breed that enjoys working cars, EVs are already better with one exception, charging time. Quieter, less maintenance, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devstrike
The HD Truck market and over the road Semi Truck drivers say hi. Ford dropped the EV development for their Superduty Trucks and Ram also said ICE has no end date. So yeah I would say ICE is still the future. I have seen and heard talks of Hydrogen making its way in to an HD due to extreme loss of efficiency of an EV while towing. TFL did a towing test with a Ford Lightning vs a Gas truck it only went 85 miles were the gas truck could tow much much farther and that wasn't even a diesel. EDIT: Looks like ICE will be around in the 1500/150 trucks as well with their EV counterparts with no end date at least for Ram and Ford.
|
To be clear the ICE truck range dropped a significant amount as well. Under 200 miles if I recall correctly. EV was worse though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan47717
I have pointed this out numerous times on this thread and NONE of the patronizing "Oh, don't worry, American ingenuity will overcome these piddling little problems." individuals have made any attempt to respond to the rare earth metals scarcity or rare earth metals mining environmental issues.
It's hard to have a reasoned debate with people who choose to only debate some of the issues while pretending some issues don't exist.
|
Mostly because what you call rare earth metals aren’t actually hat rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90503
It seems a very important component of the EV Transition has been overlooked or intentionally ignored. That is the amount of raw materials and precious metals needed to sustain this so-called transition. Being pro-fossil fuel will be shown to be the right side of history.
From the esteemed World Economic Forum:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/...ical-minerals/
"Shifting from fossil fuels to renewables requires huge amounts of critical metals.
Recycling alone won't be enough to sustain the amount of materials needed
We need to increase sharing, reuse and a preference for longevity to reduce demand.
We need a clean energy revolution, and we need it now. But this transition from fossil fuels to renewables will need large supplies of critical metals such as cobalt, lithium, nickel, to name a few. Shortages of these critical minerals could raise the costs of clean energy technologies." ('Ya think?)
EVs will never be produced in numbers close to ICE, it will be impossible. There will be shortages of available vehicles and extremely high costs to produce or own one. Meanwhile, fossil fueled ICE vehicles will have been discontinued and unavailable. The policies and planning that will follow can only be Orwellian by necessity. (As the WEF contends).
The wrong side of history will have been to eliminate fossil fuels and ICE as a standard quality of life and the freedom it provided, and blindly or more likely intentionally, replacing it with an unsustainable system of rare earth material dependent transportation. Throwing away ICE, fossil fuels, and the quality of life and standards of living it has provided to millions will be shown by history to be the biggest unforced error and folly. |
Can’t mix Precious, rare and critical elements. For example precious metals are required for every ICE car produced today.
And I just love how everyone has picked up on “wrong side of history”. This either works or it doesn’t. GM could be back to 100% ICE in 3 to 4 years. And they won’t do that just because the EVs launched or coming are pretty solid choices. The only risk of failure is that they have to back pedal on going 100% EV. None of them will likely ever go back to 100% ICE.
And lastly, the elements needed for every single ICE car and truck are so valuable they are being stolen. Platinum, palladium and rhodium. None require to make an EV emissions compliant.