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Old 01-08-2022, 08:22 AM   #153
Number 3
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Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
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To quote GM, "we do not comment of future product programs".

No, it is not official. I'm kind of chuckling reading through this thread again. OP said "rumors". LOL there are no rumors, just our speculation.

And we need to keep in mind, the EV discussion, for me anyway, is simply the hope that the Camaro continues and NOT as an SUV. GM even announced this week that their HD pickups had been moved up in their timing. GM as an EV company is going to happen. Holding out that GM would somehow make a Gen7 Camaro that isn't an EV is just hope and nothing more.

The Camaro has a shot to continue, but only as long as the Cadillac Alphas stay in production. When GM announces the CT4/5 move to an EV platform the Camaro now become no more viable than it was in 2001. It will be a low volume orphan on a high cost platform. So as much as many are showing true hate for EVs (not sure why it comes across as hate, dislike I can see but hey, that's the internet today) it's coming.

I'm pretty sure i've posted it, but with the onslaught of EVs coming, it's only going to get "worse". The development costs for an EV are MUCH smaller than an ICE. That's why startups are popping up everywhere from LMTD Vans and other cars and SUVs. The cost to tool up, develop and calibrate an ICE and transmission AND meet the emissions standards can run you up to a BILLION $ or more. A start up could never pay that back. Now simply sourcing a battery and a electric motor???? No tooling and much lower cost to calibrate (still a ton of calibration by the way which is why GM is hiring Computer Engineering and Computer Science Majors like crazy. So is my company so if interested PM me). 5 years from now the market will look wildly different. And for GM? If the market is going to have so many EV choices, well better get on board and make the best EVs possible. The market is driving this guys. As much as you want to be evil government (California excluded as CARB is now trying to figure out how to stay funded in a world of EVs) it is now market driven. At one point it was California. Their CARB Credit system alone made Tesla a Trillion $ company but now they are actually making money selling cars. Go figure.

Also you need to understand that ICE development is at the end of the road. To meet increasing FE and Emissions standards (same thing now as CO is directly related to fuel burned) it is costing HUGE amounts of money for incremental improvements. For example, go look at the indexing cam system on the GM 2.0 and 2.7L L4 Turbos. Huge cost for at best .25 mpg (or so i've heard). Hyundai/Kia (same company for those that didn't know) just shut down future ICE development.

But everyday big and small companies are going to work every day to fix every problem people keep listing for EVs. Today those issues are real. Apartment dwellers, city folk and country folk today have charging issues. But GM just announced with the new Silverado EV you can charge to 100 miles in 10 minutes. Porsche system is 80% in 15 minutes. And the cost and availability of those will come down with scale, further investment and continued development. Did you see the Michigan company that put their battery in a Tesla Model S and drove to the Mackinac Bridge and back last week? 750 miles on a single charge using the same size battery as Tesla. Now halve the size and weight of that battery and you have 375 miles range and a much lighter car. Wild stuff coming.

It ONLY comes down to NVH and manual shifting. And manually shifting is also dying. Look at the Corvette. They picked the best solution and abandoned both autos and manual manuals. If you don't believe it, you haven't driven a DCT. But the engagement factor changes for sure. But driver engagement is so much more than NVH and having to use your right arm and left leg to drive. Now credit to Honda for having a manual in the new Civic. Even as Honda moves to EVs (first ones using GM platform) they still recognize the enthusiast and historic Civic customer, so hats off to Honda on that one.

As an engineer and leader in the industry (sorry according to one person I am stroking my ego when I say things like that) I'm excited to see where we are in 5 and 10 years. Yes, I'm working on EVs and ADS products. School buses for example are THE perfect use case for EVs. Go drive 20 miles, come back to base and charge, go drive another 20 miles and come back and charge overnight. Ultimately you will probably be hard pressed to find an ICE school bus.

I get the passion on both sides of this. We just need to step back and appreciate each other views more but we also have to accept reality. A future Camaros best chance is as an EV. So what does that look like?
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