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Originally Posted by Roostie
For those against EVs, who think they aren't fun, have you driven a good EV? I test drove a Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor and it was a *blast* to drive. 0-60 in 4.2, and it always has max power available, not like ICE that only makes peak power at a certain rpm. It handled well and was fun to drive fast.
The $50k price of the Model 3 Dual Motor is reasonable considering the performance, safety and electronic features. Bonuses are that it's cheaper to fuel, and there is very little to maintain. Battery life is a concern to some, but I think it is sufficient for a good long ownership experience. Styling is good, seats are comfy, driving position is good. Paint, body panel fitment and interior materials are questionable.
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So is my reply in some electronic invisible ink?
That's my point: fun is subjective. No one should be forcing their own definition of it on others.
For some die-hard stick shift guys, anything without a 3rd pedal and double-H shifter will make them yawn. A faster car can delay that, but it will happen.
If your source of fun specifically comes from the performance figures and the sensations associated with them, good for you! And I said EV could be fun for you. Same with the whole auto vs. manual debate. If you have fun from winning(AKA in it to win it) then automatic/EV is great. I personally have more fun in participation and experience, so stick shift is more fun for me.
BTW, just a subjective opinion from me since you brought it up: Model 3 is pretty generic looking and ugly. IMO Tesla lost its charm in terms of asthetics after Model X. Model S looks great, while Model X looks good for an SUV. The front of Model 3 and Model Y look like knockoff Porsche to me, and not in a good way. I actually think the new Leaf looks better than Model 3, at least when we compare the front ends. Again, keep the grilles, guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fak_Ork
All good points although I should add that renewable resources (and the inherent storage that BEV's provide for higher-than-demand production during off hours of usage), battery longevity and potential recycling of the small amounts of lithium and other materials will keep moving that balance in favor of BEV's.
I hear you on the MB and BMW, a lot of opinions vary but the warranties are 2/3rds of Cadillac (Closer on Chevy products) and I know that out of warranty repairs are higher across the board. I know that Lifter failures in AFM engines are not exactly rare, I think I've known two users of the 5.3 truck motors personally that had this happen so there are balancing factors.
Lastly, an electric vehicle, particularly one as jarringly peculiar as the Teslas, has all the appeal of a vacuum cleaner powered CRV with a CVT to me. I like stepped geared automatic transmission ICE vehicles. Used to like manuals but I'd rather have the flexibility and speed of the A10 or Beemers A8. Suffice it to say that I am not excited about the future but know it will be OK and clean- Air quality is dreadfully underappreciated in this country and the EPA, while much reviled, is largely to thank for it.
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Good point on the energy storage but again, distribution will be the challenge as someone else mentioned.
As for AFM, it doesn't seem like there are that many failures around here. Remember that even the stick shift models here have AFM lifters(for better streamlining of manufacturing), they just don't get used. For the trucks, there are gonna be more lemons given how many trucks there are out there, and trucks are more likely to be subjected to neglected maintenance than a Corvette or a Camaro. Besides, you can disable AFM rather easily if it makes you uncomfortable. I still trust an NA V8 with AFM way more than a high-strung, over-engineered German turbocharged engine.
I am personally an extremist when it comes to powertrain - I either drive a stick or I will be buying a hybrid or EV. Autos are a bit of "master of none" to me since they aren't as fun to me while they're not quite as efficient as a hybrid or EV. But that's my opinion, and I get the appeal of good auto + ICE.