[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

You've got computerized 'Drive Modes', no?

I want my "drive modes" to be 100% the way I want to be driving my car at any given moment, without having to relay that to my car through any electronics or have my intentions seen by my car through a filter that was developed by somebody else.

You may never notice, let alone be annoyed by, automated shifts that happen too late or too soon for the way you're driving (again, at any given moment). I always will.


Norm

And that's very true. Adjusting automatic transmission logic can be a pain on the fly. In daily driving, I often just have a short burst of sporty shifting before instantly adjusting to the more economical shifting pattern. Just feels awkward to shift between Touring and Sport logic if it is an A8/A10.

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Thanks, these are very good points. Brake by wire is not yet a thing for the average car, but it's coming: https://www.brembo.com/en/car/origin.../brake-by-wire

Let me just take one of your examples, drive by wire, because it illustrates what I meant to say very well. It absolutely does NOT have to suck, even I can design one that you will not be able to distinguish from a cable driven throttle opening mechanism. It can respond quickly, its characteristics can match that of a cable almost 100%, to the point that a human will feel zero difference, even pedal resistance can be just like a mechanical counterpart.

The great thing about it is that it doesn't have to. You now have a computer between you and the throttle blade that can be told to do anything you want or need—wifey isn't confident with your 455-650-800 hp car but you need her to drive because there is an emergency? she can have the sluggish throttle that keeps her out of the ditch; you want a little more touchy feel so when you breathe on the pedal, the car jumps like a scalded dog? no problem, you now have a computer you can tell what to do, etc. In my scenarios, the computer is your slave and not the other way around, and THAT is what's worth fighting for IMO.

Now, of course one can say f*** all that, I'll just take the mechanical, "one way or the highway" approach and all these other scenarios be damned, but let's be honest, it isn't superior or even progressive (although that word has been bastardized beyond recognition, sadly). And this is where my point about preserving what is valuable comes in.

I actually like DBW. The only mechanical throttle I owned sucked. Granted, it was an old Corolla with almost 320k km or 200k miles on the clock, but the cable was loose and I had to adjust it to the tightest possible to get it to feel okay to me, and that cable is likely stretched with use and would need to be replaced.

I personally don't get the fascination with it. The instantaneous feedback isn't worth it for the highly non-linear relationship between throttle input and power output, so 50% throttle isn't 50% of the available power, it's something more like 80% so the last half of throttle travel doesn't do much. DBW allows the synchronization of throttle and power. 50% throttle means 50% of all available power. Sounds good to me.

Also, consider that things like launch control and Active Rev Match just are not possible with the cable throttle, I will gladly pass on the cable throttle.

That said, I think manual trans has a significant share of enthusiasts to keep it going, especially when you look outside of North America where manual and auto trans have different licenses and the manual license is treated as a "man card". I actually wasn't sure if I am gonna like driving a stick and learned to drive one just so I have the skill, but turns out I love it.

I personally think it is like retro gaming and vinyl records(to a lesser extent since vinyl does have some objective advantages), they are old technologies, but enough people love them to keep them going.

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

so a lot of people want to go back to the days of 4 speed manual trans,4 barrell carbs,and either 4 wheel drum or just front disc brakes? im sorry but my 6 cylinder automatic late model is faster,safer,and more efficient.

I would not daily in an old car like that, but it would be interesting to try out a car like that.

Driving my friend's 1990 NA Miata was pretty fun. It was a very mechanical and analog feeling that feels endearing to me. It's not quite archaic as you have described, but it's definitely fun to try out an old sports car.