[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Regardless of the test

We are discussing the test YOU brought up. And this test you wanted to make a big stink about the braking and skid pad. YOU made it seem like another Ford fail. I presented you with evidence it's not far fetched for other or lesser models to do just that while still losing in other metrics. You tip toed around that and just said well that is ok bc the SSLE is awesome.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Where have you seen anything like this with GM? Ok so the SLE brakes better. Well that is the SLE which is awesome in it's own right.

So it's ok for GM to do it but not Ford or anyone else. Got it.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Regardless of the test, the same syndrome is there...the more expensive Mustang loses at something to a lower level vehicle. There was no significant weight bias between the PP2 and the Shelby. So why is the PP2 braking better?

If you read the article, the GT350 did not lose at anything other than those two measureables. If you read the article C&D said the PP2 stopped better and had better grip because of the wider tires up front.

"The GT PPL2's slightly wider front tires bring plenty of stopping grip—stops from 100 mph require 281 feet to the GT350's 289


It was faster to 60, faster in the 1/4 mile, faster around the road course all while feeling more planted, more controlled and with better steering input.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Also we still don't know at which lap it did better and if it was due to 350 having better cooling. At this point the only thing the 350 is good for is beating the PP2 which isn't all that impressive for a $60K car.

Again if you read the article, they said this: "In other track tests we've managed to overheat the GT PPL2's differential in just a few laps"

Key Word In other tests. Not in this test. They did not say the PP2 began to overheat a few laps this time. They said other times it had, not this time.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

It is not about it not being fast in a straight line. Which is why I have no desire to debate with you anymore.

Hmmm

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

But when you have a chick in your $60K Mustang and you get walked by a $30K base model GT then what does that look like? Or when your $60K GT350 is capable of beating only a lower trim cheaper version of a Mustang that was built without coolers then what does that look like?

That sure implies straight line speed. You also have continually bashed it for it's 1/4 performance.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Because you just do not get it. It is because of the fact that at it's price, it struggles against cars like the SLE AND it can't do better in a straight line AND it loses at something important to a lower trim Mustang that costs half it's price. Look at what GM accomplished with the Camaros. Cars that can do everything extremely well. The GT350 can't even beat the cheaper ZL1 at what it was made to be good at. It can't beat the GT. And apparently it is capable of beating only the PP2 which is $12K cheaper around a track after the PP2 has started to experience performance fade because Ford did not give it the proper cooling.

No, I think I actually get it better than you think. You say it's not about straightline speed but that's something you keep going back to. Your bashing of the 350 in a straightline would be like someone bashing a demon for having bad skidpad numbers or figure 8 numbers

I have said the GT350 should have gone away, it's had its time and has been passed by the competition. A compliment to how well GM did with their models that came out after the 350. At the time it came out there was nothing like it, and nothing performed like it. Now 5 years later yes it's been caught and passed. Yes Ford screwed up on the PP2 by not adding coolers but that is not why its 2 seconds slower on the track.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Your problem is that you, and others, are more of a Ford fanboy than I ever will be a GM fanboy, and you don't realize it. You constantly make excuses for Ford and they continue to pump out these weird bullshit combinations and cars that for some reason cannot beat anything in their class or in their price range unless they get a heavy mismatch in their favor. If GM had built such crap I would have walked away a long time ago and never looked back. I definitely would not be defending them. But again, when your $70K+ Shelby Mustang loses in a straight line to a $30K Mustang or when the non-R version loses at something to a lower trim Mustang or when GT500s are only able to beat cars with 260 less HP and that cost much less and they still manage to lose at something and they won't even match it against the car that Ford claims they benchmarked for 3 years...and your excuse is "well the GT350 wasn't built for straight line", "oh that was only 3 tests", "oh well it still lapped the track better (after the PP2 started to overheat)", then you are a fanboy to the extreme. At this point, the only thing capable of beating GM's $60K cars cost well over $70K, needs 760 HP, and still will lose. And the other $70K vehicle can't beat anything except for the SS at anything. And the cheaper version of it is still more expensive and can only beat a car that is prone to overheating. And you're arguing with me??

But I am not making excuses I am calling it like I see it. Do I lean more Ford yeah I do. But to me a car that has virtually everything designed on it for road courses I am not going to criticize it for it's straight line speed. You can't seem to get past this. And like hotlap says, that's 1 specific combination of GT. If you think that's an excuse fine by me.

I have stated ford has had many fumbles this generation. GT350 early models not having coolers, PP2 not having coolers, how long it took GT500 to get here.

I haven't really even said if the GT500 is a success or not (or at least I don't think I have haha) I know I have said the base car looks to be worth the money but still need more tests of the CFTP. I want to see it put against the ZL1 and ZLE. I want it to go head to head and see how it stacks up. Not mix matching articles. Line them up and go.


BTW I am still waiting for all those comparison tests of the GT500 where it had all the advantages and still lost.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Do you want to go over each comparison? because I'm pretty sure we'll find that in the majority of cases the 500 has had several advantages and still managed to lose somewhere.
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As of right now, I am still pretty sure we only have the C8 Mashup test and the icons video