[Doc]

Originally Posted by ecko04

No one here would disagree with your premise, which is that we want to see the Camaro live. I don't think anyone at GM would disagree with it either.

However, everything from there is what causes impassioned folks, like yourself, to become upset. The fact of the matter is the days of $20K performance machines are gone. When we account for inflation even those cars that were purchased in the 80s would equate to what a new Camaro costs now. The Camaro, as well as the Corvette, are niche market cars and will remain as such. Sure, GM can lessen them to make them more affordable, but that would be the antithesis of everything we've been asking for (lightness, power, etc.).

Sales are only one indicator of whether a car will continue to the next generation while there are several external factors at play. We look at sales as the only indicator, but it's one of many key performance indicators. Better selling cars than the Camaro have met their fate, while others have continued. You see this thread as reaching out to GM to tug at their heartstrings, which is admirable and most folks here want the same thing, but what you are suggesting would further fragment the customer base and not coalesce it. To do what you are suggesting would require GM to pull the string on the Camaro, let it miss the equivalent of a generation or two, then reintroduced at a new/lower price point and "pony" car pedigree.

As a millennial, and as a younger person, I don't want that shit in the rendering. I call it what it is. I don't care what the price point is, if that were my option, I'd pass in favor of something else. I'm sure my uncle would disagree, and he'd love it, based on the styling. But for me, it does nothing. And this is an example of what I mean by alienating the two bases GM should be seeking to bring together. If GM is seeking to bring in younger folks, they're going to have to continue down the path they went for the 6th gen even if it means alienating some of the faithful contingent. At best, we can hope of a lower end stripped down version for the college kids, but even that isn't going to be some $10-$15K price reduction.

While Mazda produced a nice looking concept, as most companies do, it is a zero percent chance that is the model that comes to market. And when it does come to market in 2025, would it be a fair comparison to a 2019 production Camaro?

You're making the mistake of thinking of yourself and what you want, which is not what this thread is about. I've been advocating them to reinvent the pony car as an ADD to the Camaro. I've always suggested they keep the 'lettered' cars (RS, SS, LE, etc.) as the more expensive high performance cars, and ADD a reinvented pony car as a model for everyone else. It's not proposed as a $20k performance machine; it's proposed as a $25k passenger car that looks sporty, which is what a pony car was. They can call it a Chevelle, Corvair, Panther, whatever. They need to diversify beyond SUV's and trucks so when that market saturates and begins to cool, they have revenue coming in to keep afloat. It's the models and model lines that you or I would never buy that keep the revenue coming in, so they can build the cars that you and I WOULD actually buy.

Sales are more than just an "indicator"; they are the reason why a model, model line, or even an entire division exists or not. If sales aren't enough to keep a production line running, lay-offs begin to happen and if it continues, entire plants are shut down. That's not just a threat; it's happening right now.

The problem with going down the path GM went for the 6th gen, is it's a dwindling path. The manufacturing model for the Camaro is for WAY more than a couple thousand unit sales a month. It isn't set up for low production volumes. The Corvette is which is why they can continue to produce them profitably. Unless they want to change their production model (which is entirely possible) the way things are right now indicates they're in trouble with the Camaro. The only reason it began to sell last year when they had 4 months of inventory sitting on the lots, was they started offering big discounts. How do they reconcile that? How do they keep making a car that doesn't sell unless they offer deep discounts? Either they lower the price to those levels to begin with and re-engineer it so they can sell it at those points and be profitable, or come up with a style and look so desirable, that the people who can spend the higher amounts decide to buy. That market is out there, they just aren't buying the Camaro. They're buying BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, etc.

Did you know that the Mazda Vision wasn't merely an empty show car shell? It was a fully functional car. Production ready? No, but I wouldn't under-estimate Mazda.

While GM and Ford have been obsessed with SUV's and trucks the past few years, the Asian manufacturers have quietly been moving in and taking over the territory that GM and Ford used to own; passenger cars. The Asian offerings are getting better and better, and the designs and styles are improving too. The ONLY thing still in favor of American cars, and performance cars in particular, is the V8. It's been their ace-in-the-hole for over half a century, but the new turbo technology in 4's and 6's is getting remarkably good. I have a 2017 turbo 4 Alfa Romeo Giulia and it's surprising how good it is. The Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio with its Ferrari-derived turbo 6 is a stunner. Small displacement turbo engines aren't supposed to perform like that; but they do now. The V8 is starting to have some real competition.

Chevy can keep the Camaro as a track car, but they really should take another look at a model for the street without all the expensive track features. If they don't, the Camaro will become just another niche car that sells 2,500 a month; a 4 seat Corvette basically. Not that that's a bad thing, but it isn't what the Camaro was originally intended to be.