View Single Post
Old 01-18-2019, 06:46 PM   #436
Idaho2018GTPremium

 
Idaho2018GTPremium's Avatar
 
Drives: 2021 Camaro ZL1 A10
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Fan View Post
Actually, yes. You did miss something. It's called the '11/'12 GT500. I noticed that you keep conveniently forgetting that car in your lists. In fact, your hardcore fanboy-ism is what "forced" me to even sign up just so I could respond to it.


You forget that the Mustang is the first and original pony car. It will NEVER have to "answer to" any other car in the segment. Now, with that out of the way, what was Chevy's answer to:


'03 Cobra?
'05 Mustang GT?
'07 Mustang Bullitt?
'07 GT500?
'08 GT500KR?
'10 GT500?


If the Mustang is always "answering to" the Camaro, where was the Camaro from '03 - '09? What possible reason would Ford have had to make so many updates to the Mustang during a time when the Camaro didn't even exist, except in wishful thoughts?


Now let's go back to the '11/'12 GT500 for a minute. You claim that Ford had to "answer to" the '12 ZL1 with the '13 GT500. You couldn't be more wrong nor disingenuous. The '12 ZL1 was answering to the '11/'12 GT500. And even then, it only matched the GT500 in most performance metrics, and even the Boss 302 could best the ZL1 on a track. To add insult to injury, Ford dropped the '13 GT500 almost specifically just to dip their balls into Chevy's mouth when Chevy announced the '12 ZL1.


Now enter the Z28. The Z28 was a badass car that took the world by storm. It embarrassed ALL of the pony cars around a track, including the ZL1 and Boss 302 Laguna Seca. But, it came at the end of the 5th gen's run and the Mustang S197 program was already shutting down. So there was no chance of an S197 rival, even though the Z28 was actually answering to the Boss 302 Laguna Seca which was already out of production when the Z28 arrived.



Skip ahead a couple years to the Mustang S550. Ford shocks the world with the GT350 and GT350R. Chevy is pretty much caught flatfooted and doesn't even try to make a direct competitor. No, the ZL1 and ZL1 1LE are not direct competitors to the GT350s. That said, data show that neither of the ZL1s are appreciably better than the GT350R in the handling department. The deltas between HP/TRQ and track times bear that out. Look at the VIR times of each. Even with the ZL1 1LE's power advantage and supposedly superior suspension setup, there's "only" a 6 second difference between them. Yes, I know 6 seconds on a track is a LONG time! However, on a track like VIR that rewards big power, you would think the ZL1 1LE would be much further ahead. Now look at a more technical track like Laguna Seca. All that power and tech on the ZL1 1LE netted a whopping 1.81 second advantage over the GT350R. The standard ZL1 was a whole 0.9 second faster. That should let you know the GT350R is a better handler. And then there's this:





Notice which one finished first.



Now fast forward a few more years. Enter the GT500. The lead engineer pretty much specifically stated the GT500 had to answer to the GT350R. His actual words were "It had to be at least as good as the GT350R." We can infer that he was talking about the handling. So imagine the GT350R with another 200HP that it's been (re)engineered to harness. You'd have to be the biggest fanboy in the world to even remotely believe the GT500 isn't going to smash the ZL1 1LE.




Now, with ALL THAT said, I'm not here to bash or fight. I just couldn't take your disingenuous fanboy-ism anymore. I get that you love your car. There's a lot to love about it. But sheesh! Take it down a notch or two or three. I actually like BOTH the Mustang and Camaro, even the latest update to the Camaro which seems to be almost universally derided. I think it looks sharp (especially in that bright green color), but that's apparently just me. I actually dislike the '18 Mustang update very much. I actually don't like the S550, in general, except for the GT350s. Those are hot.
I already pointed out the earlier GT500s as well..his response was that the ZL1 was purposely introduced two years after the re-introduction of the Camaro (as if it wasn't a response to the '11 GT500). Oh hum.

What's funny is I literally grew up a Chevy/Camaro guy, having owned previous f-bodies, my Dad owned a '69 Vette, '65 hot rodded Nova coupe, and he currently owns a Gen 5 Camaro SS that is a sweet ride. I always bashed the Mustang as being slow, etc., but the '18 GT is so darn good IMO for what I want it to do that it won me over (see my previous post describing why) and I bought one in November and I haven't looked back since!
__________________
2021 Camaro ZL1 A10
2022 GR Supra 3.0

Past:
2018 Mustang GT Premium w/ PP1, MR, and A10
2007 MazdaSpeed3
1995 Pontiac Trans Am
1987 Camaro Z28

Idaho2018GTPremium is offline   Reply With Quote