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Originally Posted by lt4camaro
The main point is, the entire challenger line up outsells the Camaro badly, so how outdated is that?
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No it doesn't. From what I've seen there have been times when the Challenger has outsold the Camaro and Mustang. But as a whole, the Chally is the worst seller of the three by far. And even if it did, which it didn't, but for argument's sake, if it did, it is still an old and outdated platform. Sales does not change that fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lt4camaro
Ford had nothing new (supercharged) to compete with the ZL1 in 2017, 2018 and there should be nothing till 2020. There last GT500 was 2014 which shamed the Gen 5 ZL1.
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The last GT500 needed major upgrades to beat the ZL1. They had to up engine displacement, engine compression ratio, blower displacement, AND increase the boost to get it to 663. Even at that it had nowhere even close to the options of the 5th Gen ZL1, it still had a solid axle, and it was not refined like the ZL1...and since then it disappeared and has not returned and probably won't return until 2020 which will be 3 MYs into the 6th Gen ZL1 production. And after that I doubt it'll beat or even match the ZL1 1LE on the track. So that is hardly anything to worry about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lt4camaro
The GT350 and the GT350R are cars basically competing by themselves in naturally aspirated territory. The SS 1LE although is a competitor to the GT350 as it clearly destroyed any Mustang GT in any form and the R is all by itself.
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And look at the price point. The standard non-R GT350 cannot beat the SS 1LE despite costing almost as much as a ZL1. The R version costs $10K more than the SS 1LE and can barely beat it. And that is with a high revving FPC engine and light weight CF wheels. On the same price level there is no Mustang that can beat a similarly priced Camaro at anything performance related.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lt4camaro
The second point is Dodge and Ford just keep making good positive changes and great cars to keep them interesting and selling well. I would never own either car, but its clear Camaro cannot rest on its merits and price structure and remain a competitive threat. The big 3 guns right now are supercharged (so will the 2020 GT500) Camaro has to step up in that department and make the SS a better, cheaper, more powerful better looking car.
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What changes? The Chally has had the same body for over 10 years. And the Hellcat has been unchanged since 2015 except fr minor cosmetic differences. The GT500 is nonexistent at this point. The GT350 just came out in 2015 with the R coming out in 16. Neither of those have changed one bit. Not in design, performance, nothing. The ZL1 showed up in 17 and beat all competitors at everything. That was last year bro. And even now it is just speculation that anything will actually beat it. SO what are you guys all soo panicked about? It has been 1 year since the Zl1 showed up. And now because of some press announcements all of a sudden the Zl1 needs a LT 5 engine? I mean, really dude? It's been one year since it showed up. It just got here. The only thing remarkable about any of the competition is the HC getting 90 more HP for 2019 and the GT500 for 2020. Come on bro...