ATS vs 2016 camaro
 

was hoping Fbodfather might throw us a nugget but I wander dimensions wise how close the 2016 will be to the current ATS coupe?

One would think that the 6th gen should be about the same size, if not smaller. Since the ATS is a luxury car when compared to the Camaro. Luxury = more interior space. However, aren't there two different Alpha platforms? IIRC there is an Alpha+ platform which I believe is larger. SO that means the Camaro could be but on the Alpha+.

In person the ATS is a pretty small looking car. I don't think I'd want the next Camaro to be smaller than that, but I do feel being smaller than the 5th gen is just fine.

There is an Alpha long wheel base and an Alpha short wheel base which the ATS rides on. I'm hoping for the SWB version since it will be the lighter version.

is the alpha lwb for the cts? and what else would it be used for?

The ats is a really nice car. I drove both the 2.5 and the 2.0T. Whle I wished for more tq in the 2.0T its chassis is superb. It actually handled small road imperfections better than the larger cts, and it steering and cornering where better as well. It will make a great platform for the next Camaro.

Yep, its in the new CTS. Not sure what else.

The choice to put Camaro on Alpha LWB instead of plain ol' Alpha would imply keeping the Camaro the same overall length as it is or possibly enlarging it.

I have no idea what they'll do, but it's worth noting that there have been rumors of the next Camaro downsizing a bit (not enlarging). No idea whether such rumors have any merit. There have also been reports (credibility unknown) that the new Mustang is downsizing SUBSTANTIALLY, with some reports claiming an overall length in the 173"-178" range. Thus, the next Mustang could be slightly smaller than an ATS.The reasons for such a move reportedly are: (1) weight reduction; (2) smaller vehicles more suited to international sales. Not to say that GM should or shouldn't go in the same direction, but the Mustang's direction can't be totally ignored either.

I am pretty sure he is not allowed to talk about future product at all.

honestly the spy shots of the new stang look like the car is anemic, if it is between the size of the current 5th gen and the new stang I am good with that. just give it a healthy torq and I am game!

Well technically there won't be an ATS Coupe until I think next year.

Camaro's probably going on SWB Alpha.

Yep.

Yep.

I'm pretty sure there is no explicitly short or long wheelbase Alpha platform. It should be able to scale to somewhere in the middle, if necessary.

Which platform is the SS sedan based on. It's possible the Camaro becomes a coupe version of that car.

The ATS is a phenominal car. blast to drive the t version. It looks small but once in side it feels spacious...atleast for me a proportional 6 foot tall guy.

Last i read there was 2 versions of the chassis. And we dont know if there will be a gen II of one these versions built for next gen gm cars...kind of like how the 5 th gen camaro is on the second interation of the chassis it is on.

Right, and the SS sedan is bascially the third iteration of that chassis (Commodore VE/G8 were Zeta 1, Camaro is Zeta 1.5 and Commodore VF/SS are Zeta 2). I'd guess that if there's a second-gen SS sedan, it'd be built on LWB Alpha (like the new CTS).

It's scaleable to some degree but there is indeed a SWB Alpha and LWB Alpha.

Wish there were more threads like these with actual information and honest debate...


I encourage all car fans to test drive the ats...it really is a nicely done car

I have an ATS now, bought it as a way of previewing the next Camaro. So far I've been impressed.

I usually do the same thing, testing out new platforms until the halo model comes out. When I get bored with them, I dramatically crash them and sell videos of the explosions to movie studios. When my insurance goes up, I buy out the insurance company and set my own rates. It's good being a multi-billionaire.

Definitely make a point of doing this in order to put things in perspective and get a handle on how a 6th Gen might feel. I think anyone who takes the time to do this will be very impressed!
I drove a loaded AWD 3.6 a couple of weeks before heading down to Indy for the gathering and my impressions are thus:
- handling and response to steering inputs are fantastic. Agile and athletic with lightning-like reflexes. The lighter weight stands out front and center. Responsiveness is definitely comparable to my '10 CTS-V.
- ride is superb with the MRC. Definitely a worthwhile investment (IMHO) if it is an option on the 6th Gen.
- front seat comfort and room is excellent! No complaints as far as the standard seats are concerned (and I'm very, very critical of run-of-the-mill standard GM seating.) These seats are great!
-rear seat - fuggedaboutit! The ATS may as well be a coupe (visibility out back ain't great either). I'm over 6' and it was a PITA to get in and out of the back seat. The problem is getting your head (if you are a tall person) tucked under the roofline during ingress. Egress is just as challenging. However, once you've managed to shoehorn yourself into the back seat, the room isn't all that bad. If there's a person in the seat in front of you, they may have to move it up a bit. (so what else is new?) Tall folks may have to keep their heads down in the back, but that's par for the course in a 5th Gen as well!
-power is ample with the 3.6. No huge raves, but I'm sure most will find the power level to be a bit more than adequate for everyday driving (my viewpoint may be somewhat skewed, coming from a CTS-V). However, I could easily see the 420 HP TT 3.6 from the 2014 CTS V-Sport as an uplevel powertrain option on this SWB Alpha platform. Having that option available would just be so sweet in this car! (ATS-V?)
- the car had a whole whack of warning notifications (optional, thank goodness) that I found somewhat disturbing... the seat vibrates if someone comes up beside you... don't need it and don't like it 'cuz I like to use my mirrors and those seat vibrations are intrusive. If there's a car on your right, the right side of the seat vibrates - similar if there's a car on the left.
Hopefully you don't get too close to the car in front of you, otherwise the DIC will warn you of an impending collision... good stuff if you don't like to focus on your surroundings when you are driving!!
So all in all, a great package from a performance perspective. I'm very confident that GM can fine tune the road feel on this platform to the wants and needs demanded by the Camaro market (and blow the the new Mustang out of the water at all levels!)

Things are lookin' great from where I sit!

Best regards,

Elie

thanks for the feed back, got me excited for the future of camaro!

The ATS is an outstanding car. Agree with the comments. That being said, that won't necessarily make it a great Camaro.

Disagree on the size. The ATS is a small car. Keep in mind it is the same size as a Chevy Cruze and for all the people on here going "give us the ATS" as the platform for the NG Camaro, you are also saying, "give me a car the size of the Chevy Cruze".

I may be wrong on this point, but I don't want a small Camaro.

I've made the Comparison of our Audi S4 vs. the ATS. The Audi weighs a good 300 plus pounds more and if I'm picking, I'm picking the Audi. Doesn't mean that's what works for everyone, but for me I'd rather have the 3.0T and full time AWD and a slightly bigger car. Audi has reasonable rear seat accommodations. The ATS is at best a 2+2. Audi has a bigger trunk roomier and front seat space. And a Cruze has better rear seat and trunk space than the ATS. And agree those aren't attributes people are looking for in a Camaro, but GM has notoriously and famously packaged cars big on the outside and small on the inside. Look at the CTS Coupe. No front seat head room and a joke in the rear seat area. The took a reasonably roomy sedan and made it pretty bad if you ever intend more than a 12 year old to sit in the back seats. I love that car but it is a complete compromise to achieve the styling.

Now some will take a lighter Camaro no matter how small it is. That model doesn't work for me.

I want a Camaro off of a mid size platform, not a compact. JMO

Great analysis!
...and I agree wholeheartedly with your comments about the ATS - it is space and room challenged - without a doubt! Transforming it into a coupe would certainly put it into the 2+2 category.
So what if... the 6th Gen was based on the ATS platform and what if... it showed up as a 2+2? I don't think that would necessarily be a bad thing. The 6th Gen Camaro will need to come out fighting the new Mustang - which will of course be smaller and lighter than the current model - and given what Ford has shown with respect to the power levels they can achieve through the technology of their smaller, but still powerful (Ecoboost) engines, Camaro needs to come out in fighting trim. Camaro has always been thought of pretty much as a 2+2. Who knows what the new Mustang will weigh in at, but I'm of the opinion that whatever GM can do to bring the 6th Gen to market in as light a form as possible is a very important factor. Fuel economy ratings are looming large because of CAFE.
But wait! GM also has an option to think about (or they've already thought about it). For those who would like a "larger" Camaro, then the car could be based on the "stretched" Alpha (a.k.a. CTS), which is a whole lot roomier than the ATS.
I don't know what the performance/fuel economy penalty might equate to by using the larger Alpha platform for Camaro , but I feel that GM must put their best foot forward and nail it, right out of the gate, in terms of weight reduction which directly impacts fuel economy and performance.
What does it say about weight etc. if the ATS-V ends up with the 420 HP TT 3.6 and the 3rd Gen CTS-V ends up with some form of the LT1 V8?
Decisions, decisions...

Best regards,

Elie

I, personally, am of the mindset that the Camaro needs to be smaller and lighter. That said, I also think there could be room to slot an additional, larger, 5 seat coupe above Camaro.

I currently own both, a 2013 ATS Luxury package 2.0L turbo AWD, and let me tell you it's not even remotely close to being a Camaro. If GM tries to make the new gen Camaro similar to the ATS their gonna miss the boat really hard. Don't get me wrong my ATS is a nice car, and has some mechanical and undercarriage similarities but it's not a camaro, a new gen camaro and will never be compatible, well I hope not.

Well it's going on the same platform so....

The Camaro has to downsize. It is already heavier and just larger overall than the Mustang. There are some pretty solid rumors that the Mustang is going to downsize a fairly substantial amount, if the Camaro barley downsizes there is going to be a large discrepancy between the two. The lighter and more nimble Mustang would own the Camaro in every aspect, except for interior room. You don't buy a sports car for interior room..

We'll see what happens in time..

The ATS based Camaro, at least the German take:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013/07/...-in-frankfurt/

I thought the best guesses were that the Camaro would be on the longer wheel base version of the alpha platform, making it a little larger than the ATS.

Said it before, and I'll say it again, but I agree with Baylor, and I feel the Camaro would do good to downsize a little, unless GM can pull off some miracle and keep it the same size AND drop 300+ lbs (yeah right).

Yes, the ATS is on a slightly smaller platform, but it IS a sedan...so I don't see any reason whatsoever why it can't be made to be coupe (Camaro). I know you all know this, but take a step back and look at the size of the 5th gen compared to the 4th gen and earlier. It is the odd ball out in terms of size and weight.....but I also feel it looks the best, but not b/c of the size. Same car but in ATS size would be fine by me.

Mustang is shrinking...perhaps considerably. I don't think Camaro needs to go that small, nor would I really want it to, but it needs to stay pretty damn close to Mustang in terms of weight/power ratio and handling. How much of a fail would it be for the next "base" Mustang to weigh 3,100 to 3,200 lbs and Camaro base to weigh 3,500 lbs? It would be embarrasing. Some people just want a bigger car and don't care about the weight, and I have no issue with that. But these two cars are direct compeititors whether you may like it or not, and so whatever improvements Mustang makes (weight/power) Camaro should work to be competitive.

I don't get this statement. Sure, it may not feel like a Camaro in terms of look or feel, but the chasis is a wonderful place to start for a next gen Camaro in my opinion. ATS is known to be a great handler. Why wouldn't we want this for the next Camaro??

Why would it go on the LWB Alpha?

Just going by comments above about the ATS being smaller than the Camaro, basically a 2+2. And I thought it was mentioned in some other threads about using the longer platform. It's probably all speculation.

Yup, pretty much. About the only thing that is definite is that Camaro will be on a version of the Alpha platform, beyond that, complete speculation.

Well the Camaro needs to get smaller and lighter.

If anything, the resurrected Chevelle should go on the LWB Alpha.

Eh.

That concept shares a LOT with the Buick Riviera concept from a few months ago.

ATS
Wheelbase (in / mm): 109.3 / 2775
Length (in / mm): 182.8 / 4643
Height (in / mm): 55.9 / 1421
Width (in / mm): 71.1 / 1805
Track (in / mm):
Front: 59.5 / 1512
Rear: 60.9 / 1548

2014 Camaro
WHEEL BASE 9 ft. 4.3 in. (112.3 in.)
LENGTH 15 ft. 10.6 in. (190.6 in.)
HEIGHT 4 ft. 6.2 in. (54.2 in.)
WIDTH 6 ft. 3.5 in. (75.5 in.)
FRONT TRACK 5 ft. 3.7 in. (63.7 in.)
REAR TRACK 5 ft. 4.1 in. (64.1 in.)

2015 CTS
Wheelbase (in / mm): 114.6 / 2911
Length (in / mm): 195.5 / 4966
Height (in / mm): 57.2 / 1454
Width (in / mm): 72.2 / 1833
Track (in / mm):
Front: 61.4 / 1560
Rear: 61.7 / 1568

I agree. As it is, the Wheelbase of the ATS is over 2 inches longer than the Mustang. Keep the Camaro a 2+2 (which it really always has been). Make a CTS-Monte Carlo.

Unless Ford revives a Cougar, the platform design cost per unit will always be significantly higher than GMs plan for the ATS-Camaro. Assuming Camaro sales stay competitive with Mustangs.

Incomparable... The 2.0/3.6 performance RWD iare the ONLY ATS models that would be performance comparable

Smart Man...
 

Now take a look at Transformers 4 Bumblebee, loose the froufrou, put it on the 109.3 inch wheelbase (I think it may already BE)...squint, and there you have it! :doh:

The top brass claim the design is EVOLUTIONARY, not REVOLUTIONARY.
They gave us a heads up with the squinty eyed front for 2014. Bumblebee from Tr 4 is just a continuation. Tail lights are 2014. Haunches will be a bit different (as in TR 4) just because it's shorter. They are pretty much hiding the 2016 in plain sight. :cool:

ATS Coupe (shorter than sedan) is similar in size (larger wheelbase) to a Mustang. People who think they can't make a Camaro from that auspicious start are not engineers.

ATS, CTS, and Camaro will be made on the same line in Lansing. I doubt there will be any similar cues in styling between them. They will only be made on the same production line.

ATS, like the ZETA II Camaro, is modular. The front and rear sub-frames can be set to any length within a range.